Active SBL vs Passive NBL

That is easy.

Go for the nbls.

A good big un will always outgun a good little un.

Unless your room is too small to accommodate the big un.

I am still not convinced by active.

But if you go nbl now you can at a later date when funds allow go active.

so go for it.

regards David

So NBL's are definitely a better speaker than SBL's ?

Mark.

I swapped my SBLs for NBLs (with passive 135s) and the NBLs are muuuuch better! No contest. Better speed, articulation, bold yet refined.

John

Mark

I find myself agreeing with DAVOHORN (which is worrying!)

I have SBL's and have run them passive and active.

The NBL is a much more recent design and a much more capable speaker. My only caveat would be:-

SBL's have a relatively lean bass response and are ideal if your room can sound a bit fat and bloaty. If your room has these sonic tendencies, you need to be sure that the relatively prodigious bass output of the NBL's won't upset the apple cart.

Good luck.

I went from active SBL/135s to passive NBLs, for me it is quite an improvement. See my older postings about this issue. I kept my 135s and purchased another pair of 135s (plus Naca5), swapped my Snaxo24 for a Snaxo36 and have active NBLs now, which was again a huge step over passive NBLs!

I prefer passive NBLs over active SBLs (with 135s), but I still have the SBLs!

Good luck, Jun

I have also been offered a great deal on NBLs. I also currently run active SBLs but with 250s. I was just going to suck it up and buy another 250 used and a SNAXO 3-6.

I have been doing extensive listening to NBLs passive (with an olive 250) at my dealer. They are better, there is more there, and not just scale and bass. Try a home demo and decide.

BTW, I am very interested in this thread and others' responses.

Jay Coleman

quote:

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In theory yes, but in practice I know several people who love SBLs but hate NBLs

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Tom,

What do they love/hate ? My only exposure to NBL's left me with the impression that they were loud, lean and aggressive, but they were new and in a very live room and I have read a lot since about their "warmth", so I am keeping an open mind.

quote:

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Originally posted by Minky:
My only exposure to NBL's left me with the impression that they were loud, lean and aggressive, but they were new and in a very live room and I have read a lot since about their "warmth", so I am keeping an open mind.

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Badly setup NBL can be lean, aggressive, boomy... They are really full range speakers, with deep bass. They are more sensitive to placement than the 2 way Naim speakers (and other brands).

IMO, if one likes SBL, he will love NBL (except if he doesn't like real bass). The problem is to have a good setup demo of the NBL.

Minky, please, if you go to your dealer for a demo, tell him you have a used pair in mind. He will decide what to do. He will probably help you, but don't fool him.

If you decide to buy used NBL, tell us before. There are very important things to do before packing them... ask John. And go picking them yourself if possible.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

Thanks for that everyone. It looks like a clean sweep in favour of NBL's so I will get them home asap. Manu, unfortunately there are no used ones around so it will have to be the new pair.

I will let you know how I get on.

Mark.

You'll like the NBL

Can Minky use his 2-way SNAXO and four 135's to run NBS "Half" active? One 135 driving the tweaters and the other driving the bass and mid, for example?

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

I have NBL's passive and you won't regret the change.. bearing in mind all the comments in replies above about room etc.

Steady DAVOhorn and J.N. at this rate we won't need to call in the U.N. !!

Minky,
Good you buy new. You will have a full support from your dealer and from Salisbury if needed.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

I agree with many here. I'm fortunate to own a pair of NBL's, passivly driven by 2x135's. Usual front end-BOSE CD Radio! If your room can take an SBL, it can also accomodate the NBL's. Upgrading the speakers from SBL has been the best move I ever made. They are stunning-get a pair!

It occurs to me that the passive crossover for the NBLs costs almost as much as the SNAXO. So if you can see your way clear to another pair of 135s (used) ...

Or not. As I said, from my demo they sound great passive too.

Jay Coleman

Very good point Jay. Another question is, should I just ditch the 135's and go for one of the new amp's, and if so what is the minimum I would need to at least match what I already have ?

My understanding is the new 250 is similar to 135s with the new 135 replacement I guess being better. But you should really get at least a 300 if you're going to ditch 135s. Which means its cheaper to buy a second set of 135s used.

They probably sound great with 135s passive. My demo has been a 282 with SuperCap into a olive 250 passive and sounds great.

Jay Coleman

I got the NBL's home last night. These buggers are HUGE compared with SBL's. Initial impressions were "Yuk". Waffley bass, chesty vocals, boxy, no boogie. A strange thing is the desire to keep turning up the volume to get some sort of emotional connection with the music but eventually just giving myself a headache. I would love to know why I can connect to my SBL's at much lower volumes.

After much more listening last night and again this morning things are sounding much better (is it just my brain adapting to the incredibly different presentation or is something happening to the speakers ?).

I would love to get some idea of how these boys would sound active. Is Greg's suggestion of going "half active" a load of bollocks or not ? Can I feed the mid/bass 135's to the crossovers on the NBL's with just the bass and midrage connected and the treble 135's directly to the trebles of the NBL's ? It looks OK in theory, but would there be a timing issue with one part of the signal going through two layers of crossover and the other one ?

Mark.

[This message was edited by Minky on THURSDAY 20 March 2003 at 23:13.]

I think you will connect in a very short time.

You will find that bass is a lot deeper on the NBLs, infact what I think you are getting is at least an octave deeper. More over the NBL does not cut any bollocks, if its on the disk its going to be played to you as it is.

However albums like massive attacks Blue Lines, which on my sistem sounds very harsh sounds quite wonderful on NBLs.

They are a beast of a speaker, but as you point out are different to SBLs.

Although IMO they sound like SBLs with another octave down below.

nice

Minky,

Must be something wrong - the NBLs should be really good, even at low volume. Just a thought - did you power the system down while installing the speakers - if so, maybe the system needed to warm up and that is what you heard.

Turns out that one of the bass drivers was kaput. Crunchy. Chris (the world's best Naim dealer) is going to replace the bottom cabinet with one from another brand new pair tomorrow.

Now that I have spent some time with the NBL's (albeit broken) and got to grips with their superior speed and clearer/smoother midrange/treble I find their presentation basically boring. With my old system the rule is, don't put anything on unless you have hours to spare because you inevitably get stuck in a "just one more track" loop. With the NBL's, any excitement I have felt has been to do with hi-fi rather than music.

Having said that, once they are fixed, maybe the NBL's will pounce into life and add musicality to their impressive bag of tricks. I certainly hope so because this upgrade presents me with a really clear way forward. I also really want to believe that the rule that has always applied to Naim - that the more you spend, the more you get, is still true.

Mark.

quote:

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With the NBL's, any excitement I have felt has been to do with hi-fi rather than music.

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Minky

having reviewed this thread, I think there's an important point been overlooked by most of the contributors. In the logical & functional maze you've travelled containing questions such as "whats the best permutation for these NBLs in my system" etc, and "can I live with passive or is what everyone says active is best", you seem to have missed:
"I am listening to a brand new pair of Naim speakers".
Apart from being different, they're going to free up and bed in over the next six months, and its early days yet. They're going to tell you so much more about whats going on in your system back up the chain.

Keep us posted.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Mark,

one other point about the NBLs worth considering - they interact with the room in a different way compared to the SBLs. You can't just take out your SBLs and replace them with NBLs in exactly the same position. Moving the NBLs around a bit until you get the bass just right is really worthwhile. I've also found that they work best a little further away from the wall and can respond well to a bit of toe-in if the room demands it. Having said that, it's imperative that they are properly set-up and certainly wait until you get the bass driver replaced. Also persevere until they start to break-in. You will get there but some patience and effort will be well rewarded.

Richard

Minky stinky winky,

I have a pair of NBL schmen B L's too

I have actually found the best way to get them off the side of dance floor and foxtrotting, salsaring and doin the dosey do with the rest of the range is to replace the drivers with red hot toffee apples and the cabinets with bits of hardened turd.

The toffee apples give the bass a really appley sound with a hint of, well, toffee, treackly resonance and the turd a kinda raspy affect that makes Shawn Colvin sound like Joe Cocker after smokin 15 packs o' Camels.

I find it makes for a really fun dinner party game I like to call 'spot the artist' where guests have to guess who that artist was before I took to the speaker boxes with a saw and candy floss maker.

If you're lucky you could even get them help contribute to the new cabinets, if you know what I mean.....

I strongly advise not operating them in this revised configuration in tropical countries though. They can get a bit wiffy and even melt if you arent careful.

Best o' luck with all this malarkey, matey potatey, fella me lad!

Cheers, god bless and the best, and if you cant be good, be careful me ol china!!!

Don't mind Jonny everyone. He suffers from an odd combination of Turrettes, Downes and Irritable bowel syndromes. He gets cranky when his nappies are full and if you don't give him "pressies" you get the inevitable barrage of F, C, M, A, CF, AH, MF, etc, etc.

Yesterday Chris replaced the faulty bass box. The difference is staggering. An instant transformation from passive-aggressive to Saint Bernard. Without going into a detail, the main point is that it sounds like my Naim system again except bigger, easier, lower and more detailed, and most importantly, I got into a "one more track loop" last night that me missus had to don combat gear and use a night stick and pepper spray to prise me from.

Rico and Richard, thanks for your advice. I knew that the NBL's would get better. In fact before we found out that there was a problem, the decision to go for it would have been an act of faith based entirely on break-in. Now that the problem has been sorted, the fact that they will get better over time is the icing on the cake. Can you tell me what to expect in the next 6 months ?

Mark.