Ireland, the IMF and Roy Keane
Posted by: Sloop John B on 24 November 2010
OK then maybe not Roy Keane but I would be very interested in the forums views on Ireland and the Bailout.
I think I'm in a state of shock.
I can't believe we are borrowing money from the IMF / EU (and maybe some from George Osborne too) to pay back the German, French, Belgium and UK banks that lent to primarily Anglo Irish Bank to loan out buy fields in Longford worth €327 for €12,748,457.
Should we default?
Will the euro currency collapse?
Will the capitalist model that's lead us here collapse?
Will we just take the pain here in Ireland, say a few prayers for economic growth in our neighbouring economies, export our best young to these economies and be told just how good little Europeans we are.
Well............
SJB
I think I'm in a state of shock.
I can't believe we are borrowing money from the IMF / EU (and maybe some from George Osborne too) to pay back the German, French, Belgium and UK banks that lent to primarily Anglo Irish Bank to loan out buy fields in Longford worth €327 for €12,748,457.
Should we default?
Will the euro currency collapse?
Will the capitalist model that's lead us here collapse?
Will we just take the pain here in Ireland, say a few prayers for economic growth in our neighbouring economies, export our best young to these economies and be told just how good little Europeans we are.
Well............
SJB
Posted on: 24 November 2010 by George Fredrik
Surely the Euro was an ill-fated socialist plot, and I find it hard to believe that the Germans at least fell for it.
Personally, I fully support the help offered by the UK Gov't to Eire. Eire never really belonged to Britain and the help offered is clearly not a gift, but a genuine aid to the Republic surviving in fine economic health on a reasonable economic footing. This is important for the UK and for Eire.
ATB from George
Personally, I fully support the help offered by the UK Gov't to Eire. Eire never really belonged to Britain and the help offered is clearly not a gift, but a genuine aid to the Republic surviving in fine economic health on a reasonable economic footing. This is important for the UK and for Eire.
ATB from George
Posted on: 24 November 2010 by Mike Hughes
Have you read 'The Shock Doctrine' by Naomi Klein? That will tell you pretty much all you need to know about where you are and why.
Posted on: 25 November 2010 by naim_nymph
The greatest shock news on Irish austerity measures is the huge gift to their greedy and wealthiest Capitalists by doing what i thought completely impossible - lowering the minimum basic wage!
So what is it now?...
The Lower Than Minimum Basic Wage?
The Minimumiler Than Before Basic Wage?
Greedy Cash Grab Capitalists everywhere will be looking at that with delight, so easy for them to make even more money out of 'cheaper' labour, and they won’t pay tax on their gains themselves in their off shore tax haven accounts while at the same time they get to kick the poorer hard working class people right in the nuts!
What a disgrace! : <
The Tory Billionaire Party Government will be doing that over here soon, just wait and see!
Debs
So what is it now?...
The Lower Than Minimum Basic Wage?
The Minimumiler Than Before Basic Wage?
Greedy Cash Grab Capitalists everywhere will be looking at that with delight, so easy for them to make even more money out of 'cheaper' labour, and they won’t pay tax on their gains themselves in their off shore tax haven accounts while at the same time they get to kick the poorer hard working class people right in the nuts!
What a disgrace! : <
The Tory Billionaire Party Government will be doing that over here soon, just wait and see!
Debs
Posted on: 25 November 2010 by Bob McC
Don't worry peeps, it's only a "so called" recession!
Posted on: 25 November 2010 by naim_nymph
Call it what you like, what we have is Greedy Global Capitalist Oppression: They can only get Super-Rich by the creation of a Super-Poor, and they are doing exactly that full speed ahead with their hob-nail boots on trampling over working class people everywhere.quote:Originally posted by bob mccluckie:
Don't worry peeps, it's only a "so called" recession!
We certainly are: "All In This Together!"
Posted on: 25 November 2010 by Paper Plane
Totally agree Debs.
Well said!
steve
Well said!
steve
Posted on: 26 November 2010 by rodwsmith
IT IS a slow day in a little Irish town. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.
On this particular day a rich tourist is driving through the town, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.
The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.
The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer.
The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.
The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the pub.
The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit.
The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note.
The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything.
At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.
No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.
On this particular day a rich tourist is driving through the town, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.
The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.
The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer.
The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.
The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the pub.
The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit.
The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note.
The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything.
At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.
No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.
Posted on: 26 November 2010 by Sloop John B
If only.............
SJB
SJB
Posted on: 27 November 2010 by full ahead
A few weeks back I was listening on Radio Ulster to a reporter interviewing people in downtown Dublin about the crisis.One interviewee seemed to be an eldery gentleman who replied that the people responsible ie the politicians ,bankers and developers should be taken out, put up against a wall and shot for treason.He said it would be done in many other countries.The interviewer laughed and said " ah now, I know you dont't mean that".The eldery gentleman said "I mean every word of it".Interview suddenly ended. I have some sympathy with the old gentleman's viewpoint.
George
George
Posted on: 27 November 2010 by Sloop John B
While I would draw the line at shooting it does appear that some bankers lied to the Irish Government (continually) about the state of their books and enticed the Government into a bailout that they couldn't possibly afford.
It would be beneficial if some action was taken against these people. I don't even know if treason is a crime on our books due to our history but treason it is.
It would seem to me that the EU/IMF want us to default but not just know. The package that appears to be on the cards has an interest rate too high to be manageable outside of 5-6% growth per annum which isn't going to happen.
It's a classic kick the can down the road scenario.
I used to think that ROFT's lack of trust (hatred even) of politicians was a bit OTT, but then again I used to believe in the tooth fairy.
SJB
It would be beneficial if some action was taken against these people. I don't even know if treason is a crime on our books due to our history but treason it is.
It would seem to me that the EU/IMF want us to default but not just know. The package that appears to be on the cards has an interest rate too high to be manageable outside of 5-6% growth per annum which isn't going to happen.
It's a classic kick the can down the road scenario.
I used to think that ROFT's lack of trust (hatred even) of politicians was a bit OTT, but then again I used to believe in the tooth fairy.
SJB
Posted on: 01 December 2010 by Howlinhounddog
quote:Have you read 'The Shock Doctrine' by Naomi Klein? That will tell you pretty much all you need to know about where you are and why.
Quite agree Mike, the Neo-Liberal plan goes on apace ! Recommended reading for anyone wanting to get a grip on the why's and where's of the biggest con (in both senses of the word) to the West.
A senior World Bank official said at a conference after the the First Iraq 'War', 'Disaster politics are so profitable it may be fruitful to create the disasters ourselves'. The quote is not precise but the sentiment is.