Bootlegs

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One except were the Neu! CDs, which were the only way of getting the music for a long time.

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Technically they were pirates, not bootlegs. The difference being that a pirates is simply a copy of a commercially available product, where as a bootleg contains unreleased material be it demos, live material, or whatever.

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I have been almost universally diappointed in my purchases, most of which sound as if they have been recorded on a portable cassettte with the batteries running low.

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I have no longer got any, though I did own quite a lot at one point. Yes the quality is often lousy, but the content can be invaluable. I had a good few Floyd bootlegs from their spacerock period, and they showed a side of the band that IMHO is way better musically than anything (post Syd) they have officially released – the live sides of Ummagumma give a hint, but there are better examples of these and similar songs out there. Another key example is the Warsaw bootleg, this is the demo recordings Joy Division did for RCA prior to signing to Factory. Hearing the songs that were to become the landmark album Unknown Pleasures in their raw state prior to Martin Hannett’s remarkable production gives things a whole new perspective. This to me is what bootlegs are for, and as such they certainly have a place.

Tony.

I have the Warsaw record - it was an interesting prelude to Joy Division's work.

Did you the see the Channel 4 TV documentary about Factory Records a couple of weeks ago ?

Tony Wilson was on top form as usual, and there was a few live shots.

Only concentrated on JSD and the Happy Mondays, which was a pity.

What about ACR (topical now, with the 'Early' complilation', Crispy Ambulance, Section 25, Vini Reilly et al? There was more to Factory than JD and NO.

DS

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Did you the see the Channel 4 TV documentary about Factory Records a couple of weeks ago ?

Tony Wilson was on top form as usual, and there was a few live shots.

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Yes, hysterical stuff. I though Peter Hook's comments were priceless.

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What about ACR (topical now, with the 'Early' complilation', Crispy Ambulance, Section 25, Vini Reilly et al? There was more to Factory than JD and NO.

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Early on ACR were a fabulous band – I have the two Factory Benelux 12” singles which make up a fair bit of the new ‘Early’ comp on Soul jazz Records. This to me was their prime period, though their first album for Factory ‘To Each’, was also really good, but lacked the real punch of the singles. The next album was borderline ok, and after that they turned out real crap. I caught a couple of key ACR gigs from this period. I plan to buy the ‘Early’ comp for the Peel sessions and the couple of tracks from the ‘Graveyard and Ballroom’ cassette that I never managed to locate a copy of. Have you got it yet?

Vini was great – the first two Durutti Column albums ‘The return of the Durutti Column’ and ‘LC’ are absolute gems, as is the 12” single ‘The lips that would kiss / Madeline’. Some of my favourite vinyl. I saw him live a few times around this period.

I never bought the Section 25 album, and have been looking for a copy for a while now – I remember it being pretty good. I saw them and Crispy Ambulance live, though I never realised that Crispy were on Factory.

I have just been to see 24 Hour Party People, but will start a new thread on that…

Tony.

...is very rare, but some bootlegs sound so good they should have been released instead of the official recording. Best example IMHO is "The Rolling Stones Live In Atlantic City", which used to be quite easy to find, and I guess the "pirates" made some arrangement with the Stones' sound engineers in order to draw the signal off their PA system ?! The Stones, who have never been very lucky-handed in choosing their sound engineers (except maybe for Tattoo You) should take it as a lesson !

Cheese

Tony,

I have the original cassette in a purse of Graveyard. and the CD re-isssue. I bought Shack Up on 7" (The first Factory release that was a record) the day it came out, and have everything ACR have ever done (as far as I know).

I have Early on vinyl and on CD - bought it on vinyl to save wearing out all the 45's I have, and on CD to get the Peel session and the movie.

I don't agree on your assessment of the albums though 'To Each' is a gem, but only Sextet makes in into my all time top 10. The later singles also got quite funky too. What about 'Knife Slits Water' - another classic.

Crispy Ambulance had a good few 12"s - 'Live on a hot summer's night ' being particulalry notable.

Did you get the Palatine boxed set? I didn't when it came out, as I had nearly all the tracks on it, but I wish I had bought it anyway. There you go.

I plan to see 24hr PP next week.

DS

I'd have to disagree with the comment about the general quality of bootlegs. This may have been more true in the 70s and 80s (although even then there were gems to be had) ... but recently even the audience recordings have been getting very good. As is always the case ... if you're not careful you can find all the crap ... but there are plenty of great recordings to be had.

For example there have been quite a number of truely excellent recordings from the Recent (ongoing) Ryan Adams tour. He seems to be quite taper friendly, as there are quite a number of recordings direct from the soundboard surfacing. He plays nice long 2-3 hour sets, with lots of audience interaction, cover versions, new songs, improvised songs and very very good versions of stuff from Gold and Heartbreaker. Ryan and Elton John doing Rocket Man is classic.

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I have the original cassette in a purse of Graveyard. and the CD re-isssue.

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I had absolutely no idea that Graveyard had been reissued on CD – I definitely need to find me one of these! What label is it on? How long ago was it issued? I remember the cassette being really good, but as I can’t really be arsed with cassettes I never bothered tracking one down (my Walkman Pro isn’t anywhere near my stereo).

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I have Early on vinyl and on CD - bought it on vinyl to save wearing out all the 45's I have, and on CD to get the Peel session and the movie.

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Don’t you get the Peel session on the vinyl then? Bummer. Looks like I’ll have to buy the CD. I assume the Peel sessions are pretty good?

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I don't agree on your assessment of the albums though 'To Each' is a gem, but only Sextet makes in into my all time top 10. The later singles also got quite funky too. What about 'Knife Slits Water' - another classic.

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I thought I might have been a bit hasty in damning the second one with faint praise, so I played it earlier today to check. Ok, it is a good album, but there is a distinct direction change from those two early 12” singles on Factory Benelux. These two 12” singles and from memory Graveyard are ACR for me.

The first album To Each was a dilution of what went before, but is still excellent and really atmospheric. Folk law has it that Martin Hannett had the perfect mix and they were going to commit it to tape the next day, but some dork zeroed the desk, and he never got it back as good. Certainly there is none of the punch and drive of the two 12” singles here, The Fox for instance sounds lifeless in comparison. I still rate this album highly though.

Ok, onto Sextet. I think my problem is that Hannett did not produce it, and as such the funk band that were hiding behind all the industrial atmosphere are revealed a little to clearly for my taste. It is a good album none the less, but there is also something puny about it. I have the 12” of both Waterline and Knife Slits Water, and these are to my mind far more successful, KSW definitely kicks the album version well into touch.

The 3rd album I’d Like To See You Again is IMHO pretty lame, only a half step away from typical 80s funk naffness. I gave up on them at this point.

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Did you get the Palatine boxed set?

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Likewise I didn’t bother, but it would be nice to find a copy. I might finally have tracked down a complete copy of A Factory Sample, just got a bit of final negotiating to do…

Tony.

Early - yes, no Peel Sessions on the vinyl, onlty on CD 2. A must for the serious ACRist, but not essential otherwise.

The reissue of Graveyard is on Creation, catalogue no, CREV022CD.

Did you get any of the Simon Topping solo works ? Such as Prospect Park.

p.s. Sorry about this - I have the Factory Sample 2 x 7", in silver packaging, with the stickers.

I didn't get all the Earcoms though, only first 3.

DS

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Originally posted by Tony Lonorgan:

I have no longer got any, though I did own quite a lot at one point. Yes the quality is often lousy, but the content can be invaluable. I had a good few Floyd bootlegs from their spacerock period, and they showed a side of the band that IMHO is way better musically than anything (post Syd) they have officially released – the live sides of Ummagumma give a hint, but there are better examples of these and similar songs out there. Another key example is the Warsaw bootleg, this is the demo recordings Joy Division did for RCA prior to signing to Factory. Hearing the songs that were to become the landmark album Unknown Pleasures in their raw state prior to Martin Hannett’s remarkable production gives things a whole new perspective. This to me is what bootlegs are for, and as such they certainly have a place.

Tony.

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I agree with Tony on the Floyd boots; I bought my first over 20 years ago and found that, in spite of the reduced sound quality, you got performances that put their studio work to shame.

Best example is a performance of Echoes from the Rhapsody In Pink RoIO - it is of stunning sound quality and by far the finest version of Echoes that I have ever heard.

PF boots are more and more easily obtainable btw; several sites now have SHN versions available for download (the only one I can think of for the moment is Furthurmore's site, though it hasn't had any in a month).

Most treasured? A 2nd generation cassette copy of King Crimson playing at the Greek Theatre in Berkeley back in 1984; it's the same setlist as their Absent Lovers CD (recorded in Montreal from the same tour); the tape is hissy, it's evidently from a boom box, yet the performance is goosebump-inducing. Its versions of "No Warning/Lark's Tongues in Aspic" and "Red" are incredible.

Cheers

Keith.

Bootleg cretin