Standard of Living – Risen?

Adam your not getting ready to tell us the cost of Naim stuff is going to go up again are you??

No - but I'd like the rent I pay to be going towards owning where I live.

quote:

Added to that the cost of having your estranged children looked after and you have – wealth and happiness?

DeJa vu here...Our estranged "kids" (HUH!!) in ther twenties viewed us as a Full service Laundry, Restaraunt and Bank combined. They only ever came round to take advantage of one or even all three facilities at the same time.

But we got our own back, as we explained they have had the inheritance already so they can forget getting any more.

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Or is just that I have hit 95?

You should be so lucky!!...Role on voluntary euthanasia (possible here with some difficulty)...I ain't going in a nursing home....period. At least that's if the cheap supermarket food you refer to does'nt get me first

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Originally posted by Geoff P:

...I ain't going in a nursing home....period.

So I take it that the estranged children won't be shifting you into their house?

Buy a nice house cheaply some years ago in need of some TLC. Do it up nicely. Wait for house-price inflation. Then sell up and elope to an EU country where housing is much cheaper but rising steadily.
Bit of a sod if you like pork pies, mature cheddar and Marks and Sparks on Saturday afternoons. But the kids will never find you!

Working harder & longer for less & less.Both of us.
My pension is now virtually worthless due to some git stealing 5 billion from the pension funds every year for the last how many years.
My 2 daughters want to go to university, & both expect to end up at least 20k in debt by the end of it.. then they want to get a mortgage.
This country is going down fast. As Adam says.. supermarket cheap food.. I simply cannot stand bad food... but finding good food at reasonable prices is becoming a joke.

now I feel old.

Will I ever get to own the hi fi gear that I actually desire?
Doubtfull.

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So I take it that the estranged children won't be shifting you into their house?

You have got to be joking!!....Both sides of that equation would not work. Kids to day have an answer for any comments about filial responsibility. "If you don't like it you should'nt have had us in the first place!!!...."

Prof of psychology on the radio said that not finding time for your kids because of long working hours and endless commuting was storing up huge problems for the future. He must have been thinking of the royal family.

I dislike bad & cheap food too, but unsavoury and lazy cooking is far worse.


Fritz Von Good eating in Europe with knowledge costs peanuts, chuck in an Ego and you're forever in debt (copyright: Berlin Fritz by the way)

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Originally posted by Nime:
Prof of psychology on the radio said that not finding time for your kids because of long working hours and endless commuting was storing up huge problems for the future. He must have been thinking of the royal family.

It's quite true what She/He says actually

Adam,

I went to see my family in Holland recently and asked everyone the exact same question.

The answer I got from most older people was that they didn't have as much stuff. One family car, overseas holidays every second year, a single wardrobe would house all their clothes, books from the library, dinners cooked at home etc etc.

Clive Hamilton's book "Growth Fetish" questions our politicians obsession with economic growth, (easy to measure) whilst national happines (less easy to measure) is ignored. In fact research has shown that wealth beyond a certain level (eg having to choose between dinner and shoes for the kids) does not have a great bearing on happiness. In fact it turns out that a persons role in the family and community is the biggest determinant of happiness.

Quite interesting, specially as the constitution of the one country obsessed with making money mentions the pursuit of happiness its preamle.

There is also another book out recently called "Affluenza" which deals with similar topics but I haven't read it yet.

cheers
Gus

One wonders whether "globalisation" and lean manufacturing aren't simply a change of name for Iron Curtain, Warsaw Pact etc.

Think about lean manufacturing. A orders 100 widgits from B and expects delivery in a week.
B orders pre-assembled widgits from C and expects delivery in 4 days. C orders uncased assemblies from D and expects delivery in 2 days. D orders bulk stock from importer E and wants them yesterday. E is closed for the holidays anyway. Something doesn't add up.

I remember back when desktop computers were just getting going there was a TV documentary heralding a bright new future based on the premise that we would be able to get our work done much more efficiently and that leisure time would increase until that golden day when we only needed to work a couple of days a week and then could enjoy the affluence the computers would bring us all, the rest of the week.

UNFORTUNATELY as we all know what actually happened was that the bosses quickly sussed that individual output could be increased with the aid of computers so they needed less employees who could pick up the workload if half the workforce was laid off.

Nowadays computers are the employers friend. When more output is needed you don't need to employ more people, just issue the current workers with laptops and expect em to catch up at home in the evenings

OH brave new world...where art thow?

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Originally posted by Geoff P:
Kids today have an answer for any comments about filial responsibility. "If you don't like it you should'nt have had us in the first place!!!"

Fair point in my opinion... I can't use that on my folks though as I'm adopted - he he!

Seriously though, modern life is rubbish. Blur were right on with that one!

My generation (20-30something) is the first to be WORSE OFF than their parents EVER - and it's only going to get worse. Something's gotta give...

Years ago I did a stint as a Christmas postman. A full timer said he had given up a previous job as he liked the exercise, occasional human contact and FREEDOM.

Today our postman waved a cool looking barcode reader at a Post Office sticker in our office. Nothing sweet and helpful - just a clock in system to check on his rounds.

A Postman's Christmas Box today Adam probably consists of a friendly left hook though, innit ?I did quite like that adoption comment above though, I had a lickle larf on that one, sad as it is, though true & funny imdo.

Fritz Von It's only rock N'woll but I like it, like it, yes i does

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff P:
"If you don't like it you should'nt have had us in the first place!!!...."

The answer to that is "I tried not to, but I stuffed up and some of the little buggers slipped through anyway"

Steve

It's easy. Market forces dictate that as more money comes into a given household (through two or more of the inhabitants living there as opposed to just one bringing in a wage) the more rents/house prices will increase.

The problem in the UK is a cultural one - we place an excessive material value on our dwellings above the quality of life we may live therein, and this drives the value of property upwards.

In addition to this, Capital is no longer safely maintained in intangibles such as stocks and shares so the nation's money has transfered into the tangibles of bricks & mortar. The percentage of householders owning the roof over their heads will dwindle as more and more homes are bought to let. Thus homes will be owned by fewer and fewer individuals - notably pension/investment companies.

A solution would be to penalise fiscally the owners of homes who don't actually live in them, instead of raiding pension funds hedged on an array of stocks and shares.

It never ceases to amaze me how much is invested in the home when it is usually a dormitory somewhere between watching TV and going to work for the vast majority. Oh, and somewhere to park the car at night.

The inevitable unnecessarily expensive showpiece kitchen where oven-ready meals are "prepared". The posh dining table and chairs that are totally ignored while poisonous & tasteless cardboard meals are consumed on the lap in front of the giant TV. The shed/garage is full of powered gardening tools to get the outside chores over as quickly as possible. To maintain that air of manicured & poisoned perfection. Even if the wildlife can't survive in your garden any more than they can on your local golfcourse the reduction in songbirds must be a good thing when you are sleeping off yet another hangover.

Weekends are spent queuing in expensive armchairs on a road to an out-of-town supermarket or superstore somewhere. Are sports wheels and low profile tyres really essential to maintain a grip on a stationary length of Carmac? It would seem so.

As soon as the holidays come round your feet don't touch the ground until you're soaking up a dose of skin cancer in a country that demolished reality to throw up tasteless concrete hotels for tasteless international grockles who easily outweigh the locals by a blubber and a half. Your appearance on the artificial beach is loathsome and does not improve with the degree of skin redness or acreage of exposed hide pere square metre.

But fortunately the mangrove tres have been removed to allow you a fleeting glimpse of the sea between consuming another tinned beer and belching loudly in best basking elephant seal tradition. Had the mangrove trees remained the local fishermen and supported population would have enjoyed a living and all would have been protected from the frequent Tsunami. The seas would also be full to overflowing with the fish and animals that would have grown up in the safety of the mangroves. But big money and corrupt officials alway make the rules when they can see an obese profit just itching to roll on their imported sand and lunge drunkenly to their tunes in their concrete nightclubs.

You get home as wound up as a clock spring after endless delays and the long drive home from the airport and sit watching TV and looking forwards to getting back to work so you can relax again. The neighbour you hate feels obliged to lean on your neo-gothic doorpost while you discuss how awful it all was. Thereby depriving you of your chance to get back to the footy and another tin of real pissner that you have waited for longingly for a whole fortnight.

Excellent post Nime.

We've lost touch with the Quality of Life in the UK at least.

In France I envy the lifestyle: cheaper homes that are actually more comfortable and spacious than ours, kitchens equipped with top-notch cookers and fridges, but less commonly a microwave or freezer. Two old wrecks of cars outside that are actually well serviced and economical. Some of the households have a nice stereo in them too. The hi-fi/music passion isn't stigmatised as nerdy...

A second home near the beach or mountain. This maybe rented out for much of the year but its primary purpose is a holiday retreat for its owners.

Excellent public transport in and around major cities. An enviable rail network. Smooth-surfaced and empty roads in rural areas - ok no public transport provision out there but driving is such a joy.

Big supermarkets (bigger than UK) but also specialist shops selling the finest produce - cheese, bread, cakes, the traiteur, specialist butchers, le cave à vins...

Privately run bars and restaurants not part of some big capitalist chain.

quote:

DeJa vu here...Our estranged "kids" (HUH!!) in ther twenties viewed us as a Full service Laundry, Restaraunt and Bank combined. They only ever came round to take advantage of one or even all three facilities at the same time.

But we got our own back, as we explained they have had the inheritance already so they can forget getting any more.

quote:

If your kids don't get your inheritance neither will the State. That in itself is a good thing.

'Cost of living'

'Quality of life'

I wholehearted/cerebral-ly agree that most 'western' peoples have long since lost the plot about 'quality of life/standard of living'.

Often the greatest enjoyer of replayed 'music' might be someone in e.g. Africa playing wind-up radio enjoying mellow nature moments (probably not in Mugabe country).

It does usually make sense (even I am glad I did it) unless you rent out properties to expend 'rent money' on purchasing capital asset domicile.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Toy:
We've lost touch with the Quality of Life in the UK at least.
In France I envy the lifestyle: cheaper homes that are actually more comfortable and spacious than ours, ...

But - we are told that France's way of life is unsustainable (in the modern economic ...) AND property hungry Brits have been eyeing up every part of Europe where houses are still a "bargain" - i.e. presently affordable by people in the area.

Property price booms feed and sustain inflation. Economies prosper as vapour wealth feeds high street sales. Inevitably the bubble pops - indebtedness and slump follow. Much of the recent “strong growth” was a result of cheap money (low interest rates), high employment and increasing capital – as represented by greater than inflation house price rises.

Once things get sticky – interest rates will rise and the barely sustainable cost of home ownership will exacerbate the “real” adjustments to the economy that will ensue.

Access to affordable shelter (rented or owned) is as fundamental to a decent life as access to food and water. Substitute “water ownership” for property and you quickly see the damaging effects of a finite resource being priced out of universal availability.

There is a strong argument for ensuring that, if we wish to pay £x (where x is a small figure) to our lowest paid workers then there should either be housing available at, say, four times yearly income or proportionate rentals or socially provided housing.

France seems to have several factors which help property be less contentious. Large country, relatively sparse population. Very large rental market. Fixed mortgages. The insatiable appetite of Brits for housing investment may turn it into the new Cornwall, Devon, …… where locals (with locally viable incomes) can no longer afford to live.

Adam

The situation you describe for the UK is remarkably like that in New Zealand at the moment. There is high employment, mortgages rates are low (8.5 percent variable) and the money is easy to borrow. Our house has increased in market value by more than half in two years. It is becoming a dream for the average worker to own their own home unless they move to a smaller town or away from the main centres and suffer the consequent drop in wages and job choice.

Chaps

Is it something about Hifi that turns everyone into a bunch of whingers. This place is not as bad as PFM but it is catching up.

We own more gadgets, have more consumable goods, take more holidays to further away places than ever before and you feel hard up.

If you really want to feel hard done by, ask your grandmother how she coped washing clothes without a washing machine.

No TV's, fridges, freezers, cars, telephones etc. You have never had it so good.

Even wallpaper was a hard won luxury in those days and yet you sit here whinging like a bunch of old womem.

If you want the goodies, bloody work for it.

If you want to go back several generations and live frugally, sell up and move out to some exposed wasteland in Scotland or Wales.

You can still buy houses for peanuts out there and you can live without all the goodies you take for granted.

But for crying out loud, stop whinging.

Regards

Mick