Standard of Living – Risen?

It occurred to moir that the many religions as well as other well established organisations use fasting at certain times as an act of respect & thanks for having food to eat, as well as needing to lose a few pounds of ten in many western artea's if you get my drift ?

Fritz Von Only by aqquiring an inner form of happiness can one's standard of living be ascertainied I reckon, naturally having a few beer vouchers soften the blow of poverty as Del boy rightly say's, but that's just skin deep, innit


Quality of life; Wot's That then John ?

Hi Jonathan,

Off-topic, sorry guys, but I've been trying to get in touch with you lately

How are you getting on with your job-hunt??

Cheers,

Jon

JohnR,

It's been frustrating I must say - the main hiring time for pilots is between Oct and Feb/Mar so the vast majority of airlines I have applied to have 'put me on file' until later in the year. However I was referred to BA back in March and am due to attend for 1st stage assessment centre on Thursday this week. If I get through that then I will have to pass a 1 hr sim-check too. My dream has always been to fly for BA above everyone else so I'm trying to get prepared to give it my very best shot. Wish me luck!

How are you getting on?

Jonathan
PS If you want to get in touch email me at jonathan.gorse@ntlworld.com

How high do they fly then my old Son ?

Jonathan,

Best of luck with your test, and you have mail!

Cheers,

Jon

quote:

Originally posted by JonR:
Jonathan,

Best of luck with your test, and you have mail!

Cheers,

Jon

Jon, this reminds me of when Fax machines first
arrived and people rang their New York office from London to see if the money saving Fax had arrived, if yer get me drift like, innit ?


And yes, Johnathon I trust you are able to do your best as well me old high-flyer

Sorry Fritz, just gettin' ahead of meself as usual. All this posting on forums can get a bit burdensome on the old cranial element, innit.

BTW in answer to your earlier query, between 33,000 and 38,000 feet, or thereabouts.

Cheers,

Jon

quote:

Live your on life. Then you have nobody else to blame for your failures. You deserve nothing that doesn't come from your own toil. Inheritance is really just a historical accident designed to prolong the family genes. In some cases it stopped them dead in their tracks by the time the family blood-letting was over! Big Grin

Very wise words indeed from Nime.

I think that standards of living are rising all the time in most areas for most people but for some their aspirations are just spirling out of control and this may well be what is causing the problem. I know that in some areas of the country mortgages are running at somewhere about six or seven times a good salary and many times more an average salary with the hope of owning a house of your own is rather unlikely.

So what to do?

(1)Blame others for owning two or more homes thus restricting the supply and inflating the price.
(2)Blame employers for not paying a living wage.
(3)Blame employers for offering payment supplements to key workers.
(4)Blame the government for subsidising key workers.
(5)Blame the government for inheritance tax.
(6)Blame the government for taxation in general.
(7)Blame a government for phasing out of mortgage relief.
(8)Blame lifestyle TV programs for showing you what you can't have.
(9)Blame the Lotto for not allowing you to win a double rollover.


(99)Blame yourself for not earning enough to match your aspirations.
(100)Blame yourself for selecting the wrong profession, vocation, or job.

Would it help if people were to drop the blame mindset and take control of their own lives for a change? I think it would.

Ther is one area where young lives are infinitely poorer than ours: You have no sense of magic with each arrival of new technology.

Not in any particular chronological order but still memorable:

Magic eye valves on radios & tape recorders! Imagine being able to hear your own voice played back for the first time! Transistor radios in tobacco tins. Concord! Space flight to the Moon and planets. First simultanous stereo broadcasts on TV & radio. A phone at home. Colour TV. Big screen TVs. Your first flight. Japanese DOHC multi-cyclinder, multi-gear motorcycles instead of the same old agricultural, oil-dripping, cast-iron British bikes of old. The ZX81 that let you write "COMPLETE BOLLOX" on the TV screen for the first time instead of watching complete bølløx as a passive zombie. Then the BBC B that did "FOR X = 1 TO 1000 Next X" at many times the speed of the Sinclair and did it without crashing!

Some of the latest mobile phones are truly magical when all lit up and showing a moving image recorded moments before or just downloaded. The same goes for in-car DVD players and GPS mapping. Google Earth!
Computer connections that let us write complete bølløx to other people all over the world instead of getting on with our work! Sending image attachments by email! Hi-definition plasma screens. High quality subwoofers! I could be a complete techno-junky if I wasn't careful. ´

To not enjoy the simple childish excitement and pleasure of all these advances is to be denied something really special. You become a passive consumer of goods instead of an active particípant on the long voyage into the future.

quote:

Originally posted by JonR:
Sorry Fritz, just gettin' ahead of meself as usual. All this posting on forums can get a bit burdensome on the old cranial element, innit.

BTW in answer to your earlier query, between 33,000 and 38,000 feet, or thereabouts.

Cheers,

Jon

What sort of altitude do the other airlines fly at then me old mate ?

"My dream has always been to fly for BA above everyone else "

Fritz,

There is supposedly a story of a BA Concorde Pilot who called up ATC on the ATlantic chat frequency to ask about a hunk of metal that he'd just overtaken at 800 miles an hour some twenty thousand feet below him. The Captain of the jumbo said 'heh - that's us - who are you calling a hunk of metal!'

I think it's fictional, but you get the idea!

Jonathan

Nice one Reminds me of the cyclists here who fly by all the jammed Porsches, Mercs /& Beemers of a moaning at 'Not' rush hour, innit

I bet Blair was thinking along those lines the other day on his slow return from Singers ?

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
Back in my Dad’s day (1800) one working parent could possibly afford to pay the mortgage or rent on a family home.

Now – with both sexes liberated to work – it takes all a couple’s efforts to … pay the mortgage on a family home. Added to that the cost of having your estranged children looked after and you have – wealth and happiness?

Supermarkets have introduced us to the hell of cheap food. Like some communist state cheap basic food, (contents: water, air and cheap fats) Chinese made electronic goods allow the cost of production to be kept “competitive”.

Or is just that I have hit 95?

To return to Adam's original point. The ability of people on relatively humble salaries to buy property is something that is very unusual in British history. I'm no social historian but I would venture a guess that prior to Word war II it was almost uneard of.

Thanks to the post-war social democratic consensus policies followed by Labour & Tory governments, the working class and lower middle class did experience a real rise in incomes and for the first time that made owning your own house a realistic prospect.

When I was a child in the early 70s my parents tried to buy a house in Barnsbury, an up and coming neighbourhood in the borough of Islington, north London. I think it cost £2-3,000 and my dad could have afforded the mortgage but the bank wouldn't lend him any money because he was a taxi driver and ajudged to be a risky borrower.

Nowadays houses such as this reguarly sell for over £1 million.

Since the eighties we have seen the end of the social democratic consensus and its replacement by an economic system based on unfettered free market forces. Property has become a tool for investment and speculation to a degree never experienced before.

The end result of this is those on average earnings are finding it increasingly difficult to get anything decent, especially in areas where jobs are plentiful.

This is payback for the 80s and 90s and the Thatcher/Blair neoliberal revolution.

Paul

Chaps

My eldest son is 33 and a manager of a distribution company. He lives in a 4 bed detached house and his children live a much better standard than he ever did at their age.

My second eldest also lives in a 4 bed detached house and also lives well. One new Honda civic and a good foreign holiday every year.

My third son scived around for a few years but is now buckling down. He still lives with me but manages to save over £1000.00 per month.

If you go for it, you will get it.
It is a question of attitude and effort.

I think Jason has had a good go and no doubt will soon reap the rewards. He got off his ass, so good luck to him.

Regards

Mick
Regards

Mick

I hope he likes rhubarb a lot ?

A couple of comments.

Adam's topic title refered to the standard of living. The post itself then focused on proerty prices, which are clearly a significant part of the cost of living, if you want to buy. But you could rent, and enjoy a good standard of living.

The standard of living has gone up - full stop. The quality of life depends more on what you make of it. The price of houses is relatively high at present. Not many people have a 2/3 final salary scheme, index-linked pension. Most pension schemes were changed about 15 years ago to defined contributions and then Gordon Brown finally buggered the whole system with his taxation changes. So, its not just the 35 year-olds who are concerned.

House prices around about 1972 to 1974 doubled in 12 months. Made a lot of people feel sick at the time, and many couples found themselves being interviewed by building societies, to make sure they didn't intend to start a family!!!!. So this business of high prices for property isn't entirely new.

And lets all be clear. The world doesn't owe us a living.

Jonathan, the airline industry has always been a roller-coaster ride. In 1960/62 my friend found himself working as a navigator for a few years, rather than the pilot he had trained for at Hamble. Many of his pilot friends had taken jobs as cabin crew because of the downturn in pilot requirements. All had just been trained (2 years) by BOAC. In 1975, I found myself, part of the 4th batch of 30 pilots in a row, trained then laid off imediately because of a similar down turn. Again, in 1985 (ish) many BA pilots were on short time, and quite a few left, due to a market downturn. Keep trying and good luck.

But at 36, you have had 15 years working to save for a house. And 15 years ago, prices (relatively speaking) were lower than now. BA will want you to retire at 55 so you only have 19 years to repay the old mortgage. Don't take your eye of the ball, so to speak.
Cheers

Don

Jonathan Gorse

I agree that 'the market' (us) has made it seem daunting to buy domicile for youngsters - however, I started buying 22 years ago because it was then cheaper than renting, and solely for somewhere to live. I inherited no property from my parents, but my daughters are likely to inherit my wife's/my house from us.

I cannot believe that 'students' accept loan/repayment as way of life - I was fortunate to have maximum grant of £400 p.a., and if I had to repay e.g. £12-40000 for education I would have gone to work instead of spending 4 years at University.

My point is that - apart from media-moderated probably worse human behaviour in e.g. UK/greater expectations of youngsters for unneccessary consumer crap - REAL things are potentially better.

By REAL things (Real standard of living) I mean health/potential time to 'think'-converse-interact in human way etc.

I do not believe that the unfortunate youngsters being marshalled off with need to take out loans to 'universities' today are intellectually more able than e.g. students 30+ years ago.

I suspect that as cerebrally challenged UK governments have e.g. removed meaningful structure/order from state education they have as part of 'the market' reconditioned most members of society into thinking 'standard of living' = cash made from number of appearances on TV.

I also think music can be enjoyed from cheap adequate portable-radio, and that e.g. £50000 Naim system is not a prerequisite. If mindset is not brainwashed removing soul/ability to think about the real 'standard of living', some individuals fortunately in reality of 'New Labour' capitalism can value REAL indices of 'quality of life'.

95% of folk here (Rich & Poor) prefer to rent, and have more cash in hand so to speak. I've been living in my present flat for exactly 20 years this month, and probably could have virtually paid for it by now ? As a single man, holidays etc, have been my priority, have also enjopyed years of heavy bank debt and interest in the past through my own stupidity, but a Mortgage ! that could be bollocks overnight through unemployment etc, no thank you very much, and in a kids and wife situation, it would no doubt be 100 times worse.


Fritz Von Enough to drive a person involuntarily to drink so it is, though I've never been a materialist like Our Mick anyway

Geldof announces next awareness raising concert:

Interviewed today, Sir Bob Geldof has announced that his next awareness raising concert will highlight the plight of the "truly down trodden": the middle-class thirty-somethings living in the UK. Sir Bob says he was driven to tears while surfing the internet yesterday and seeing the depravation that many are living in. He explained "I found this site about HiFi and the stories were enough to make me gag. I've done enough for Africa its time to help the truly suffering". At this point sir Bob became animated in his usual fashion "They can't even afford a four bedroom house. The UN don't care, the G8 don't care well I care, they should have that four bedroom house" Sir Bob exclaimed quoting some lines from a post on the forum and storming out to look for Midge.



Get a grip guys, I'm guessing you aren't worrying about where your next meal will come from so all in all I think you are doing a damned site better than a majority of the human race.

quote:

"They can't even afford a four bedroom house. The UN don't care, the G8 don't care well I care, they should have that four bedroom house"

Actually they can't afford any fucking house.

Mind you I'm suprised anybody should want to brag about having a Honda Civile, that's almost as rough as letting it be known pubically that ones neighbours are Manchetser City fans, innit

Fritz Von MInd you it's lucky that everybody in Lodon can afford bottledwater now; orthey'd all get bloody poisoned in contrast to the bad old day of my yoof when it was so drinkable and free

Economically the UK has gained from improvements in technology, previous economic expansion and previous improvements in infrastructure.

However, right now we are seeing much of our cash escaping this country as this world becomes more of a globalised economy. The question is, will the UK have anything competitive to offer the world in ten years time?

I hope I'm wrong but a number of factors seem to indicate that the UK is committing economic suicide.

First, education and career path. Compare the state of education and career choices made in the UK today with those of countries like Russia, China and India. From my own experience, the Chinese are doing the right thing by gearing up to be an economic superpower. What's more, the drive and determination of the people in China is amazing and an example to others.

Second, the UK's current levels of debt is attrocious - both personal and mortgage debt. This is starting to hit consumer sales hard, which in turn affects jobs. Also, next month the Bank of England look set to incease interest rates in order to reduce the increases in consumer price inflation. As I said a year ago, put your shares in banks - as they're making significant cash out of people's debt. A deadly cocktail of debt, unemployment and trade deficit would spell financial disaster.

My financial tip for the next few years is commodities. Asia is growing and will require commodities to expand and develop, all paid for by our money . Gold is also on an up-swing.

Best of luck to everyone, because we're ALL going to be in for one hell-of-a-ride.

Andrew

I'll stick with me Pork Bellies

Prof of danish Business School suggests that the next round of new jobs to replace lost (boring & repetitive) manufacturing jobs will be "creative" and "self expressive".

He was a bit airy-fairy about the exact type of jobs about to descend on us. But films, value-added international holidaymaker support systems and small scale customer-specific quality crafts are some suggestions.

I suppose I could be an old fogey extra, juggling my hand-made wares on a unicycle while chinese businessmen's wives film me with their mobile phones. So, no change there then.