"Kind of Blue" So what?

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It's not even Miles Davis' best record!

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If ever there was someone who could never be pinned down to just one "best record," it's Miles Davis. (Actually, no artist of substance could, and why should they? ... what's The Beatles' best record?)

I resolutely still listen to Kind Of Blue, and always have. It's a seminal masterpiece.

Johne

Oh, and the best Beatles record is Abbey Road... ;-)

Pete.

As for the Beatles - Ugh. They didn't have a best records as they're all crap.

Cheers
Steve

Cheese - may all beings be happy

Paul Darwin: “I feel that anybody who can ignore the musical and sociological importance of the Beatles, is ill equipped to contribute to a forum based on music.” Anyone who thinks pop music, or any music, has any importance other than the pleasure it gives to the listener (even modern jazz) should get a better perspective on the really important issues in society.

cheers

Nigel

Put it at the back of the shelf, rediscover it in a few months at it will sound much better.

Matthew

Pete.

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I hate this record! If you do a search on the music forum it comes up more than 40 times. There's a book about it,a documentary of the book, a new re-release every year, pitch corrections, audiophile versions…

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I don't fully understand why 'Kind of blue' has captured the public imagination to the degree it has. It is certainly a stunning work, and an album that I really like, but it seems to be rated as a one stop jazz collection in many peoples minds. I think as a result it has been put on too high a pedestal, and has also been over played by the media. The same thing applies to The Beatles (who incidentally had many excellent albums), with Sgt Peppers frequently being hailed as the best rock album of all time. It is neither the best rock album, nor even the best Beatles album - it is however certainly the most over analysed rock album of all time. 'Kind of blue' definitely takes the title for most over analysed jazz album.

In a way I am glad that 'Kind of Blue' and 'Sgt Peppers' are the albums elevated to this level of media hysteria, they are both excellent albums, so Joe Bloggs actually gets a good deal, though ultimately neither are a really important part of my life (I do happily own both). Were it say 'Black Saint and the Sinner Lady' or 'Unknown Pleasures' being hyped to death I would be far more irritated.

In a way 'Kind of blue' is a fabulous starting point for someone new to jazz, it is an obvious link to the work of Cannonball Adderly, John Coltrane, Bill Evans etc: Buy 'Kind of blue' just like the marketing machine told you to, then using a little intelligence buy 'Somethin' Else' (it is a very similar line up), next our new jazz purchaser is coasting through stacks of old Blue Notes… Result.

As for The Beatles: I live and work in 'that' city, the one that has based an inordinately large proportion of its economy on the sale of cheesy Beatles trinkets, "culture", and even Magical Mystery Tours etc that take in locations have changed beyond any historical recognition. It is impossible to walk from my work (near The Beatles Museum) across to my city centre apartment without tripping over bloody yellow submarines, statues of Eleanor Rigby, scary big John Lennons etc. Amazingly even this level of total marketing saturation does not distract from the fact they wrote some really excellent music - after a while you just become immune to the Beatle noise in the background.

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, it was the music at my wedding....

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Hmm, how did that happen then?

Tony.

Censorship in the "arts", for want of a better word, is rarely effective because the banned article gains an importance far beyond its actual worth or quality by virtue of its prohibited status.

All I'm saying is that,IMHO, music does not change the world, it does not topple governments, it does not affect the fiscal system, it does not provoke (or prevent) civil unrest. How could it given the fickle nature of popular taste? It is good to have but society would not collapse without it.

cheers

Nigel

And it's provoked plenty of civil unrest over time as well. Note, for example, the cultural significance attached to a few folk wanting to bang drums and play fifes while walking down roads in Ulster, or alternatively to them not doing it if you're on the other side of the fence. Came up with that example after several whole seconds thought, sure I could come up with others if I bothered to try.

Pete.

I cannot think of a single event that has focussed so many people on helping a good cause, before or after. Music, it appears, works where other methods had failed. It therefore would appear to have a far greater significance than many would give credit.

It's been done to death since, and very little of musical note has ever come from a charity record although the 'Sgt. Pepper knew my Father' charity release, to pursue the Beatles theme, was one of the few charity records to have some musical merit - I don't suppose many people bought it for that reason, most Beatles fans would probably hate it!

Music has often been the motivating and communicating force behind many important messages, it allows access to a very wide audience, and I can think of a number of artists' work that has been the spur for an increased interest, and consequent change of behaviour, for a particular cause or message. It's significance in communities where the 'media' is not so prevalent cannot be ignored.

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes

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All I'm saying is that,IMHO, music does not change the world, it does not topple governments, it does not affect the fiscal system, it does not provoke (or prevent) civil unrest.

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It does however document change in all the above areas. Think of how blues and jazz link in with the whole black American culture (listen to virtually anything by Billie Holiday) or how music had a large part to play in anti Vietnam protests. In this country from early rock 'n' roll, and the mod scene of the sixties right through to punk and the dance scene, music has always had a large part to play with documenting social unrest. It has even on occasion caused scared governments to hide behind oppressive and unjust laws such as the Criminal Justice Bill.

Tony.

"I'm sure that your Beatles are shit thread is designed to be deliberatly provocative and my sense of better judgement tells me to ignore it. However, as much as I would defend anybodys right to their view, I feel that anybody who can ignore the musical and sociological importance of the Beatles, is ill equipped to contribute to a forum based on music."

While I'm certainly guilty of being deliberately provocative (I can't help it - it's my sense of humour, but then at least I've got one! ) I'd say that anyone who draws deep philisophical conclusions on my fitness for online society from my musical opinion one a single band is guilty of rather a rash generalisation.

I didn't live through the Beatles era (thankfully - have you seen the clothes they wore) so my conclusion is purely based on my opinion on their music which I find over-rated. Of course you'll say they did heavily influence the music I do like listen to, and you might be right (I did hear Sibbelius was a _big_ fan).

Anyway the bottom line is:

a) I don't like the music of the Beatles (that's based on listening to it and not liking it) even if some people think that I should.

b) I'm not personally convinced that the Beatles themselves were responsible for large scale sociological change, but in fact were themselves merely a result of the changes then taking place in a society undergoing massive flux due to all manner of pressures. Of course my sociology, philosophy and psychology professors might be wrong and perhaps all social development in the last 30 years was down to the efforts of Paul MacCartney and John Lennon...

Anyway you're entitled to your view and I'll just happily return to listening to the music I like and to playing some music I like on my violin, guitar or keyboard...

Just remind me though, exactly what criteria _would_ have equipped me to be a valuable and credible contributor to this forum? Other than a love of the Beatles that is...

Regards
Steve

The music industry affects the economic position just as any large industry does, of course. I think it naive to say that music in the context of Northern Ireland is the cause of unrest - sectarian differences have nothing to do with music as I suspect you well know. Take away the music and the unrest would still be there and this is where I think Tony has it right in that music can reflect, document or comment upon social issues - the majority of it does not (Top of the Pops anyone?).

cheers

Nigel

It might only be a modifier to an existing situation, but that modification can be very significant.

Pete.

Pete.

Hockman. Intersting choice of favourites. John Zorn where would I start? Masada? I really like Dave Douglas.

Nigel. Get hip to the contapuntal man! Havent you read Camus, Kerouac. Get in touch with your inner self! I feel anger, frustration a bad vibe here. Let it go. Try Brotzmans"Machine Gun". Therapeutic.
By the way whats all this about pretension?

John
Grade E .. Music appreciation 101 (Naim board of examination). Dunces cap on

By the way if you've never heard the massed ranks of various Orange bands with a few Lambegs rattling out the Sash outside your front door at 7 in the morning before they go off to the field well.. its an interesting experience...I doubt DBLs come close anyway.

[This message was edited by John C on THURSDAY 28 June 2001 at 00:00.]

[This message was edited by John C on THURSDAY 28 June 2001 at 00:02.]

Actually I like it but its the hissing in the backgrond that gets to me.

My all time fav sound is 'And you and I' by Yes, but again the hissing gets too me, I know it probably adds to the feel, but hey still annoying.

Heard on the news of a musicless march in Northern Ireland where violence still ensued - must not confuse the symbol with the cause or effect. And after only a few seconds thought.

cheers

Nigel

You were right the first time

I didn't like KOB for ages. It was one of those albums that I thought I needed to own but when I played it I couldn't get into it.

Recently things have changed.....yes I love it.

Chris

Rubber Soul now gets my vote.

Chris

PS I'll probably change my mind again