What's the best Bach Art of Fugue

Hi Nigel

Have you tried listening to it late at night, when darkness and silence hold illimitable dominion over all?


Nigel

quote:

when darkness and silence hold illimitable dominion over all?

Crumbs!

Nigel

Seriously, it's worth persevering. AoF may not be as purely enjoyable as the other works you mention, but it's a fascinating - even haunting piece. I really do prefer to listen to it late at night (when darkness etc...), but maybe I am not normal!

Cheers
Nigel

quote:

Originally posted by hungryhalibut:

... But the Art of Fugue is proving very difficult. The Walcha is way better than the Aimard, but it somehow doesn't seem to hang together in a coherent way. I really like some parts, while others are mystifying. I don't know if this is known as one of Bach's more difficult works, but I am certainly struggling with it, and I really don't understand why. But I shall persevere!!

Nigel

Dear Nigel,

It is the most difficult. No doubt about that. Like the late String Quartets of Beethoven, there is no music that is more mystifying. But there lies its significance. Its emotional secrets are not very much on the surface. But don't give up. Give it six months and come back to it. Each reconnaissance will reveal more till the music becomes the kin-pin of all music. No greater music exists, though everything else is easier to gain a love of.

I still don't claim to understand it in every part, but find it easily my favourite music after twenty-five years of acquaintance.

George

As a youngster I got to know the AoF by chamber orchestra versions like the ones by Redel(Telefunken), Münchinger (Decca) and Ristenpart (Erato), and I played it myself (on piano), but it was Walcha´s version which slowly but definitely opened my ears and mind to this unique work, which eventually became my favorite music (one of the traits I share with George!), and since then I have acquired almost all existing keyboard versions and a few others. Most of these are outstanding in their own way, but only a few of the truely complete versions are as compelling and integrated as Walcha´s (One has to remember, that the work probably never was meant to be played at a single sitting). This is why I despite a few stylistic reservations recommend the Walcha version.

Delivered last Saturday form HMV, i've had some time to play and listen and it's so nice i've played both disc's a second time too...
I don't like to compare this organ work to Art of Fugue to the Stuttgarter Kammerorchester and Karl Munchinger version i love so much, i think it's an apple and pears thing and i like both those fruits anyway.

But memories of my last church going (going back twenty years or so in the days before i risked spontaneous combustion for entering a house of God) the old church had a very good organ and an excellent organist too. He played his best at the end of every Sunday service while the bored looking congregation filed out the exit ...but my friend and i stayed seated for this live musical belly tingling performance that was for me, exceptional, and perhaps the only part of my Sunday church going i really appreceated.

Anyway, my attempts to recreate this powerful church pipe organ music via the hifi was always met with disapointment...
The only comparable i have is my NAXOS JS Bach 'Organ Favourites' played by Wolfgang Ruebsam and i've never managed to play the whole cd, only bits of, and very rarely, (if you heard it you'd know why).
The Fugue in E minor BWV 548 is very clearly brought to life with Walcha's play when compared with Ruebsam/Naxos.

The Walcha - Art of Fugue i find very easy on the ear, a pure delight, i prefer it with soundstage and i'm very happy with my 135's and sbl's in this respect, it's fabulous music to work to and that's good because things have gotten very busy for me at present so no time to sit in the sweet spot (half way up third pew on left of aisle ; )

Considering the age of this recording Deutsche Grammophon have done a very good job with the cd sound engineering, leaving a reasuring analogue hiss that goes quite unnoticed because the music takes over, and a good depth and clarity to the performance too.

Obviously, (on my audio) it does not sound as real or powerful as a real church pipe organ played live, but it comes close enough for real enjoyment, especially in the more delicate and higher pitch parts. This is not a double cd that will get dusty on my shelve.

A splendid recommondation George, thank you very much! : )

nymph

Dear Nymph,

In all probability the anologue hiss is the nice analogue hiss of a steady leak of air from the organ [breathing] chest! They all do it to some extent! You just don't notice it when you are by one in real life, as somehow the ears can filter it out in the natural setting. In all probability, nothing but an accurate representation of the real sound!

But it's great and I am glad to read of your enjoyment, and yes Walcha does make sense of the BWV 548. I have the older monaural recording of that [with hiss on a different organ!]. Wonderful music ...

George

Here is a sort of layman's analysis of Bach's Art of the Fuge. Link It is a review of the Aimand recording.


My own impression of this work, from minimal exposure, is that it is not for music lovers in general but for scholars to pour over with score, or for advanced study for pianists. In this respect, for the casual listener, Bach's Art may be relegated to the level of "eye" music, that which looks good on the printed page but fails to engage the sinews of all but the most ardent music specialists. Of course, as someone has pointed out, it can be great music to wash the dishes by, but then, so could an album of Mariah Carey....


I used to own Charles Rosen's version on piano which, to judge by it's critical consensus, is considered somewhat dry and direct. This thread has piqued my interest and I may well seek out Rosen's recording for another listen.



Noye's

From Noye's link in the previous post:

"It's as if Bach intended the AOF as a theoretical treatise, to be read and studied rather than performed, to demonstrate some of the more arcane things you can do with the idea of a fugue."

I know this is an idea that circulates, but I cannot see why this wonderful music should remain solely as an object for study, only seen [read, and therefore heard in the minds ear by musicians] in score form, but never to resonate in real performance.

The trouble with it is that in its over an hour of length in performance, it requires a level of concentration that is not in my view equalled in its demand from any other music. It is the opposite of music for those with a short attention span!

Each listening brings new rewards. I would guess that even after a lifetime of occasional listening to it, the music will still be revealing itself! That is its genius, and its fascination. It is also true to say that the Cantus Firmus which underpins the whole work is so varied with contrapuntal methods that the average listener would be unlikely to spot that the same theme does predominate. Mirror, Rectus, ... Augmentation, Diminution... A study of the terms is enough to realise that this is an exemplary work of theory, for budding composers, but certainly not only that!

In reality the methods involved in developing the theme, and creating the counterpoint that springs from it are, or would be, the study, if that be your wish, and if you did study these fugues, and four splendid cannons, till you understood the methods involved, then you would be able to compose the most perfect counterpoint from a theoretical standpoint, though Bach's genius was to bring to the dry theory his wonderful humanity!

All this misses the point that it is also the most wonderful, human, and consoling music! Of course it should be performed and listened to in which ever way brings the individual listener nearer the music in the best way!

I doubt is Munchinger or Walcha [two great Bachians who made records and performed it many times] would consider this a solely theoretical work, solely to be looked at [in the print] rather than also brought alive by performance.

On the other hand, it is possible to see that not every music lover will necessarily be someone who can enjoy the challenge of the Art Of Fugue! I struggle with the music of Bartok, but would not wish to relegate it to the study of advanced Twentieth Century Music, and abandon performing it!

George.

quote:

Originally posted by Oldnslow:
I have no idea how "authetic" is Grigory Sokolov"s performance on piano (Naive) of the Art of the Fugue, but I know I like it a lot.

Agreed Oldnslow, this is excellent.



There are 2x5CD boxsets (Naive) with some excellent music on them (live recordings). Bach Art of Fuge, Chopin Preludes, Chopin sonata no.2, Beethoven Diabelli variations, Brahms Op.10 Ballades....

If you go to France now and again, pop into a Fnac and you can pick up these 10 CDs for 70 euros or so. A real bargain IMO.

Regards
Mark

Yes, it is a shame Sokolov has seemingly dropped out of the scene as far as recordings go of his live performances, which I think is all he would ever release. No studio for him.

Another piano version is ...

Evgeni Koroliov

which I bought based on the following quotation on the back of the CD ... [I am a fan of Ligeti] ...

"...
György Ligeti: "... but if I am allowed only one musical work on my desert island, then I should choose Koroliov's Bach, because forsaken, starving and dying of thirst, I would listen to it right up to my last breath."
..."

It is actually very good.

Here are details ...

Tacet recording

James H.

P.S. Maybe someone should start a discussion of the best Goldbergs.

ends==