080603 heard the cds3
Posted by: DAVOhorn on 08 June 2003
A friend has on home dem the cds3.
Went round this afternoon to hear it.
System is 552/500/allthegoodies/nbl/fraim
he previously had the cds2.
I can say quite catagorically that the 3 is way ahead of the game compared to the 2. It is so unlike the 2 as to have been from a different manufacturer. The historical Naim sound is no more.
The noise floor is now very low so that you can play at very low listening levels and it is all there. The music is far more realistic and natural sounding. There is no edge or hardness at all, there is a roundness to the sound balance that was not there with the 2.
In fact it is so non naim that i could live with it.
Gripes are that the image and soundstage is still not what i would go for ,small and 2 dimensional but a big improvement. The dynamics are still smaller than i have at home.
So the fifty dollar question is will he buy it?
I think so , i do not feel that he could pull it out of his system and go back to the 2.
So it will be money well spent in the context of his system.
I will stick with my system.
regards David
Posted on: 08 June 2003 by Martin Payne
David,
careful, there! You've got a reputation to maintain! In fact, alarm bells are probably ringing throughout Naim HQ. Will they ever live this down?
My CDS2 took a good month to burn in - dynamics were quite muted until this point.
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
Posted on: 08 June 2003 by Onthlam
Don't know how old(turned on) the CDS3 I was listening to at the show was...
On SL2s the dynamics were amazing.
252/300/SL2/CDS3 at the show..
On NBLs? It should pound a #6 into a joist....
Regards,
Marc
Posted on: 08 June 2003 by Tuan
It is not to my suprise that the new Naim boxes are no Naim (of old). This is a fact that signatures the new Naim belief. Some of us may like it or may not... I like the sound of the CDX2, but like the olive sound of the NAC250.
Posted on: 09 June 2003 by DAVOhorn
Marc,
my vision of dynamics is simple
105dbw horn loudspeakers max loudness 125db.
So with 5w single ended triode valve amp max loudness is 110db.
So to swing from 85db to 100db takes less than 1w.
No way could an SBL manage that.
So it is relative.
I still say that the system is probably the best NAIM system that i have heard.
I am off to hear another NAIM system this weekend which should be interesting.
I will ensure that i take my full quota of opinionated bigotry pills and a few glasses of iced venom tea.
And of course a few cd's that i know will sound bloody horrible on the system.
regards David
Posted on: 11 June 2003 by J.N.
The Unbeliever
It is refreshing to have David's input on matters Naim, beecause he is not of the faith.
We have respect for each other's views, but cannot enjoy each other's systems.
I guess his point about dynamics, proves that Hi-Fi is fascinatingly subjective. Whilst I accept that his valve/horn system, may have greater technical dynamics - I do not perceive it to be the case. His sound is dull, slow and boring to me; whereas my Naim/SBL system, has a 'spark and life' that his system doesn't get close to.
Our differences were neatly illustrated at my place recently, with my pair of fully refurbished and serviced Quad ESL 57's runing on the Naim CDSII and amps.
David loved the wonderful sound of the Quads and suggested that I should keep them in the main system and sell my SBL's.
Whilst I enjoy the beguiling qualities of Peter Walker's wondrous creation; I couldn't wait to get back to the 'snap and punch' of my SBL's.
Funny old game eh?
Posted on: 12 June 2003 by Michael
Interesting comments from both David and J.N.
The main point is that, whilst we enjoy listening to the music in different ways and on systems with vastly different characteristics, we all share one love and that is the music.
We are fortunate that in our part of the country we have a very good circle of friends with good systems that we are happy to visit and listen to. This makes for very pleasant social evenings..good music, good light hearted banter, good food etc.
But the most important thing to me is that between us we have a very wide appreciation of what it is all about...the music. Some of us favouring the classical side, some jazz and ranging through to chart material.
Although one person's system is not to another's taste.. we nearly always discover new music on these occasions and go out and buy the discovery. I have found so many new artists and pieces of music from my friends that I might not have otherwise ever had the opportunity to hear.
Thanks guys, it is a pleasure to know you all.
Posted on: 12 June 2003 by DAVOhorn
I totally agree with you Michael.
I always find that these are expensive evenings as i have to go out and buy many of the discs that are brought along to these evenings.
Music appreciation is what this hobby is all about. And being introduced to new music and artists is the most rewarding aspect.
Also the social side of things is very important too. We are able to enjoy our hobby and frienship (and have a good slagging off as well, all adds to the fun).
So enjoy the music and the different sound balances of friends systems.
Going out tomorrow to hear a different NAIM system. Looking forward to it .
I hope that the gentleman will be able to visit my house to hear my systems at a later date.
Enjoy the hobby. You meet a wide variety of wonderful enthusiastic like minded souls.
regards David
Posted on: 13 June 2003 by Martin Payne
quote:
and have a good slagging off as well, all adds to the fun
phew, that's alright then.
I rather regretted the "how would you know though your speakers" comment tonight, but the moment presented itself, and I couldn't resist! As you know, I was only joshing.
I just need to know what sort of mayhem I need to undertake in order to have a dedicated listening room like Russell's?
cheers, Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
Posted on: 13 June 2003 by Onthlam
Dave, I now understand your reference point for dynamics.125 is well beyond my comfort zone...
The most fun I have had to this point.
Having an 82/Super/250/Quad 63 system.
To date it is the only Naim that has brought tears to my eyes....Thats a good thing...
To replace that emotion, I will need to go active with 3 500s and add for good measure.
the CDS3 and the 552!!!
In many ways the Quads are the only speaker that can make up for a poor frontend..(IMHO)
The best to all,
Marc
Posted on: 18 June 2003 by J.N.
A further listen
I've had another evening with my friend's CDS3, about 2 - 3 weeks from switch-on and I'm now fully convinced. I'm sure there's a bit more to come, but this baby (with an XPSII and 'go-faster' Burndy) is something special.
It digs deeper into the mix; producing a blacker background AND seems to also have the verve of the original CDS, without any raw edge.
The killer test was Coldplay - 'Rush Of Blood'. This is a crap recording and was a mess on the CDSII - The CDS3 sorted it out into an enjoyable musical experience.
Another real leap in CD replay performance.
P.S. You won't like it now; David - It bites!
Posted on: 18 June 2003 by david r
[QUOTE]Originally posted by J.N.:
_A further listen_
"The killer test was Coldplay - 'Rush Of Blood'. This is a crap recording and was a mess on the CDSII - The CDS3 sorted it out into an enjoyable musical experience."
If a recording is crap how can it be sorted out by the CD player? What is on the disc surely cannot be improved merely played with accuracy. If it is improved doesn't that mean the CD player is coloured?
CDSII, 52, 135's Fraim, and SF Electa Amator II's
Posted on: 19 June 2003 by syd
I have more detailed theories on this issue, since it is something that I frequently have contended with over the years, as I have quite a considerable number of poorly recorded CDs. But I can't be bothered to explain it all here There is a God after all
Yours in Music
Syd
Posted on: 19 June 2003 by Michael
I couldn't have put it better myself John.
The Coldplay disc in question is now producing beautiful music from my system.
J.N. what an expensive evening for you... in 2 ways.. Japanese pressings and a new CD player !!!!!!
