Apples 2 Apples? or Apples vs PC

I can almost hear the tapping keyboards of Mac users who will jump up and say "but it's more intuitive to use, I don't need to know how anything works, it just does it".

I was at a customers house the other day installing some products that can be controlled via a PC or MAC...I am the first to admit that I don't get on that well with MAC's (I just haven't spent enough time learning them), but the first thing we needed to do was enable file sharing - on a PC all I do is right click on the folder I want to share and there is an option to share it in the pop up menu.

Try as I might, I could find no Intuitive way to do this on the MAC. I asked the customer if he knew, after all it is his computer - he didn't have a clue - dispite being a long time MAC user and working in the computer qualifications industry..!

I ended up trying to get iTunes to share the music library folder and the first thing it did was say that I needed to enable WINDOWS sharing on the MAC and then I should be sweet - iTunes (or the MAC help) then stepped me through how to do it and then iTunes shared the Music library.

I still wanted to share other folders but I could not work it out - I had to get iTunes to import and copy the content of the other drive to achieve the desired result. Albeit in a clusy way.

Intuitive - Not in my book
Easy to figure out - Nope, not that either
Just works - Hmmmmm, kinda but I still don't get it and didn't seem to have much control over what was going on or why...

People buy Macs because they love Macs. Their rationalisations come after the emotional buy-in.

Still, I own an Alfa Romeo and it's not because it makes sense as a car.

At a guess - wouldn't System Preferences to Sharing to select relevant option be reasonably intuitive?

Hi Macker

Sharing is trivial on a Mac

Everything is set from "System Preferences" which you select from either the Apple Menu or the Dock - i.e one click.

The Sharing option is under "Sharing"

So click "Sharing" - you'll find the option.

I'm not surprised that the owner didn't know how to do this as it's not something you often want to do. I think you'd find most PC users would know how to this either. It's not difficult in either environment.

I'm not overly keen on the new Apple adverts even though they are clever - the advantages of the Mac are self evident and mainly in the quality of Apple's software: the OS X kernel is very stable compared to Windoze. You can get used to either interface - Microsoft always seems a bit behind Apple to me, but that's opinion and maybe just saying I much prefer the Aqua GUI. However, the architecture of Windoze and its dependence on Dynamic Linked Libraries is why I think it's inferior and has so many conflicts and security problems - I believe Microsoft accepts that as a fact and is trying to re-architect its OS to overcome this (albeit rather slowly).

Still Howard's link was amusing - you could do one of CDs vs Vinyl or possibly MP3 vs CDs and show that MP3 is best - so why do so many of us here waste money on CD and Vinyl replay systems - perhaps we're just a bit eccentric. All except me, of course, as I sit typing this post on my PC running Amiga OS - no Dynamic Linked Libraries and amazingly quick boot-up - even when it crashes it looks better than Windoze as it goes in to a Guru Meditation Sequence much nicer than a blue screen of death. Better press 'Post Now' before another Guru appears.

ATB Rotf

There are the visionaries, and then there are the suits:
Beatles > Everything since
John Logie Baird > Sony
Alexander Graham Bell > BT & AT&T
Jobs > Gates

A comparison of the graphics hardware is missing from the first chart–not a minor portion of the expense...

I (in a life long past) used to spec Windows/DOS-based CAD workstations for industrial clients with hardware identical to what Apple was offering at the time (1993)–ironically, Apple machines were, at the time, actually LESS expensive than the a la carte PC of the same specification.

Since the changeover to Intel processors, I've not seen anyone bother with these infantile hardware comparisons, inasmuch as the value for money (at a hardware level) is roughly about the same.

Thing I love about the Amiga is that when it crashes it gives really friendly error messages through the Guru - here's an example

quote:

Software failure! Press left mouse button to continue.
Guru Meditation #84010007.00C13870

user friendly computing at its best.

I just found a web site for decoding them.

quote:

Since the changeover to Intel processors, I've not seen anyone bother with these infantile hardware comparisons, inasmuch as the value for money (at a hardware level) is roughly about the same.

Don't you have to pay more for that extra mouse button?

The fact that OS X uses Unix (FreeBSD) as its operating system appeals to me greatly. However I just need to mention two words:

Key Combinations

Why does Apple have to have so many? - To the point of being extremely difficult?

Also why is the Terminal window icon not in an obvious place? While we are on the subject, one word of caution I did manage to find the Terminal window when at the Apple shop, but the staff don't appear to like seeing their customers play with that - they probably get a little jumpy Well I was politely asked to close it though, so fair enough.

The hardware is quite reasonably priced, particularly if you buy in the USA or Hong Kong (my wife is coming back from HK with a new MacBook!) - but they don't update the product range quite as often as I would like.

For me I'm a big fan of current versions of Linux. Ubuntu with Beryl window manager, and Conky desktop info does a VERY impressive job. Transparent windows, a lot of the snazzy window shuffling that OS X can do etc. It's now pretty awesome. Leopard may steal a march with its new finder functionality though.

I am feeling a bit dumb, because I am a mac user without a job, but what was the bridge all about?

As for icons and such, well most everyone who uses a mac is never going to use terminal, thats what the dock is for, if you are going to use terminal drag its icon to the dock, or to the top of an open window in finder, or to the left hand side of a window in finder, or put in on the desktop and so on...

windows pcs are more prevalent than apple machines - same as aiwa/ sanyo/ bush music systems being more prevalent than naim

quote:

Originally posted by Observer:

windows pcs are more prevalent than apple machines - same as aiwa/ sanyo/ bush music systems being more prevalent than naim

But Naim is actually better than aiwa/sanyo/bush(?).

What is it that Macs are better at?

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
What is it that Macs are better at?

more stable
easier to use (opinion)
no nasty viruses
run windows easily
etc, etc....

What do you have against Macs Deane?

I know bugger all about computers. I have macs at home and a pc at work.

I have myself at home with little knowledge and an IT department at work (with sometimes dangerous knowledge!).

From my ignorant perspective, Macs are an awful lot more intuitive.

My only qualification is that at work I am still stuck with Windows 2000 Prof - so I may be missing out on the pc front!!

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by Huwge:
At a guess - wouldn't System Preferences to Sharing to select relevant option be reasonably intuitive?

Like I said - enabling the windows sharing was completed, but how does one then go about sharing a particular folder - I am genuinely interested in knowing.

quote:

Originally posted by Macker:
Like I said - enabling the windows sharing was completed, but how does one then go about sharing a particular folder - I am genuinely interested in knowing.

go to the folder and right click on it. there should be a "sharing and security" option to select.

quote:

Originally posted by Jay:
go to the folder and right click on it. there should be a "sharing and security" option to select.

That is the same options as in Windows XP then, can't understand how I missed that on the MAC...

quote:

Originally posted by Macker:

quote:

Originally posted by Jay:
go to the folder and right click on it. there should be a "sharing and security" option to select.

That is the same options as in Windows XP then, can't understand how I missed that on the MAC...

ah sorry, you're using a Mac. forget that then.

quote:

Originally posted by Jay:

more stable

I have no stability problems with XP SP2.

quote:

easier to use (opinion)

I don't find Macs easier to use - but then I've been using PCs for fourteen years so that's not surprising. I don't think that computers of any kind are in any way intuitive though - in the way that a cordless drill or a hammer is intuitive to use. Computers are great tools but their interface is not particularly "human".

quote:

no nasty viruses

Hmmm - viruses are fast becoming a minor threat when compared to the many other security issues that come with usage of the internet. Sure, my data is the most expensive part of my (or any) computer - but Mac users have credit cards and use internet banking just like PC users.

quote:

run windows easily

Have you heard of anybody anywhere who is even remotely interested in dual-booting a PC to run a Mac OS.......?

quote:

etc, etc....

There's two "etcs" - are there two more assertions you'd like to make?

quote:

What do you have against Macs Deane?

They're damned expensive. They don't do what I want computers to do, and I can't run the software I like on them - and I am inspired by the zeal of Mac users to come up with counterarguments to their evangelism.

quote:

Originally posted by Jay:
ah sorry, you're using a Mac. forget that then.

Correction - I am TRYING to use a MAC....should be easy huh! I at least thought that a MAC user would of offered an answer by now...

I am also inspired although I am not sure why I bother really, I can see you have more against the attitude of Mac users rather than the equipment itself. fwiw I use both xp pc and mac and I'm happy doing that. I see advantages in using both. I'll play the little tit for tat game if only for you to realise I'm actually not a zealot and a real person.

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
I have no stability problems with XP SP2.

you lucky gent. lots of other folks do and for obvious reasons.

quote:

I don't find Macs easier to use - but then I've been using PCs for fourteen years so that's not surprising. I don't think that computers of any kind are in any way intuitive though - in the way that a cordless drill or a hammer is intuitive to use. Computers are great tools but their interface is not particularly "human".

I do and I've been using pc's for 25 years, having a pc in the home since I was 12.

quote:

Hmmm - viruses are fast becoming a minor threat[/uote]

easy test, take off the anti-virus then

quote:

Have you heard of anybody anywhere who is even remotely interested in dual-booting a PC to run a Mac OS.......?

you don't need to. get a Mac. my iMac allows me to use what I need on the Mac and what I need on a PC.

quote:

There's two "etcs" - are there two more assertions you'd like to make?

no thanks.

quote:

What do you have against Macs Deane?

They're damned expensive. They don't do what I want computers to do, and I can't run the software I like on them - and I am inspired by the zeal of Mac users to come up with counterarguments to their evangelism.

fear enough but please bear in mind expensive or vfm depends on quite a lot on how much moola you actually have and how you measure the value you receive. obviously both highly personal.

mac zealot, anti-mac zealot, pc zealot? not much difference to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Macker:

quote:

Originally posted by Jay:
ah sorry, you're using a Mac. forget that then.

Correction - I am TRYING to use a MAC....should be easy huh! I at least thought that a MAC user would of offered an answer by now...

just trying to help Mr M.

quote:

Originally posted by Jay:

...the attitude of Mac users...

So you've read garyi's posts about Macs then....

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
I have no stability problems with XP SP2.

you lucky gent. lots of other folks do and for obvious reasons.

I don't know why lots of other folks do - but I regularly error check my hard drives as well as just defragging them. It seems that while many people defrag regularly, not many run error checks. It makes a difference to system stability with XP. I also regularly update my installation of XP.

quote:

I do and I've been using pc's for 25 years, having a pc in the home since I was 12.

Yes, and my point is that your 25 years experience and my fourteen years is what makes computers easy to use for us. I could go into any rest home and hand a selection of power tools to a resident and they would intuitively know how to use them (though not with any great skill). This simply isn't true of computers. They are not intuitive to use. The GUI and the mouse has done a great deal for useability - but hasn't gone far enough.

quote:

easy test, take off the anti-virus then

Actually, mine's been off for a long time. It's there and I run occasional scans - but the real-time scanning is off so it doesn't hog system resources (that I like to use for games) by running constantly in the background. I run a check on any executable files that I download. I haven't had a virus on the last five systems over the last 6 years.

quote:

quote:

Have you heard of anybody anywhere who is even remotely interested in dual-booting a PC to run a Mac OS.......?

you don't need to. get a Mac. my iMac allows me to use what I need on the Mac and what I need on a PC.

The usefulness of the PC architecture and the Microsoft Windows operating environment is proven by the fact that Apple users everywhere are running dual-boot Windows/MacOS and the fact that nobody anywhere is doing it on a PC. (And don't you find it at least a little bit ironic that suddenly Mac users are saying that it's a point in the Mac's favour that it will run Windows...?)

quote:

fear enough but please bear in mind expensive or vfm depends on quite a lot on how much moola you actually have and how you measure the value you receive. obviously both highly personal.

Good point - when I consider how much my video-card is worth - I could build a basic system for less than the cost of my video card alone...

quote:

Originally posted by Macker:

.... at least thought that a MAC user would of offered an answer by now...

Hi Macker

You can only share the Public folder by default on OS X for security reasons. There is a difference of opinion between Apple and Microsoft over the implications of sharing other folders. On OS 9 you could share any folders. You share the Public folder as in my post above. If you want to share a different folder then please read on ....

You can alter tOS X security to allow you to share a folder through NetInfo - the following script does it automatically on my OS X Tiger system. You can of course launch NetInfo from /Applications/Utilities and do it through the GUI system - a bit like editing the Registry in Windoze if you don't like its default behaviour - the usual caveats apply

sudo nicl . -create /config/SharePoints/MYSHARE
nicl . -create /config/SharePoints/MYSHARE afp_name "NameVisibleOverNetwork"
nicl . -create /config/SharePoints/MYSHARE directory_path "PATH/FOLDER"
nicl . -create /config/SharePoints/MYSHARE afp_use_parent_owner "1"
nicl . -create /config/SharePoints/MYSHARE afp_use_parent_privs "1"
nicl . -create /config/SharePoints/MYSHARE afp_shared "1"
sudo killall AppleFileServer
sudo /usr/sbin/AppleFileServer

MYSHARE is a name of your choice
PATH/DIRECTORY is the fully qualified name of the directory you wish to share.

WARNING - this works fine on my computer, but I can't take responsibility for running commands on anybody else's computer. Remember this changes the recommended security settings.

A safer alternative is to use some donation-ware from HornWare - the utility you want is SharePoints.

Apple has not made this easy for you because it is not something it wants you to do. Interestingly, there are in-built tools to do this on OS X Server.

Hope this helps, Rotf

Sharing only occurs in the shared folder in a user account, this then becomes available to those on a network without specific privileges to the account.

If you are new to mac then the help menu can be useful. I am not being cocky, in general typing in your query does return a result.

As much as deane loves me I would agree with him on one point, no computer is intuitive.

Its only intuitive to people who know how to use them or have an idea how to to use them. I have installed a fair few computers now and for a couple of people they have never used a computer. Try telling them its easy.

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
I don't know why lots of other folks do - but I regularly error check my hard drives as well as just defragging them. It seems that while many people defrag regularly, not many run error checks. It makes a difference to system stability with XP. I also regularly update my installation of XP.

It's the nature of the beast too. With an open standard and so many hardware and software manufacturers it's bound to cause issues. The greater volume however is beneficial on the wallet!

quote:

Yes, and my point is that your 25 years experience and my fourteen years is what makes computers easy to use for us. I could go into any rest home and hand a selection of power tools to a resident and they would intuitively know how to use them (though not with any great skill). This simply isn't true of computers. They are not intuitive to use. The GUI and the mouse has done a great deal for useability - but hasn't gone far enough.

Yes well, I can't even work all of my mobile phone features! What chance is a normal (non geek) person going to have with a PC/Mac?

quote:

Actually, mine's been off for a long time. It's there and I run occasional scans - but the real-time scanning is off so it doesn't hog system resources (that I like to use for games) by running constantly in the background. I run a check on any executable files that I download. I haven't had a virus on the last five systems over the last 6 years.

That's not normal behavior I'm sure you'll agree. You know what you're doing . The advantage for the Mac user is that they just don't need to worry about viruses. At the moment that is!

quote:

The usefulness of the PC architecture and the Microsoft Windows operating environment is proven by the fact that Apple users everywhere are running dual-boot Windows/MacOS and the fact that nobody anywhere is doing it on a PC. (And don't you find it at least a little bit ironic that suddenly Mac users are saying that it's a point in the Mac's favour that it will run Windows...?)

Well I think it proves that the applications themselves are valued, not necessarily XP. You do still need XP to run them on a Mac anyway!

quote:

Good point - when I consider how much my video-card is worth - I could build a basic system for less than the cost of my video card alone...

What's the card? I bought a Radeon 9700 when first released for a ridiculous amount of money. I had far too much time!