Apples 2 Apples? or Apples vs PC
Posted by: BigH47 on 19 July 2007
Posted on: 20 July 2007 by Rico
quote:
I don't think that computers of any kind are in any way intuitive though - in the way that a cordless drill or a hammer is intuitive to use. Computers are great tools but their interface is not particularly "human".
Difficult analogy - A hammer has two uses: hitting things, and (if it's a claw hammer), removing nails. A drill drills things. A computer OTOH is a whole toolkit laid out before you - a little like giving a first-day mechanics apprentice a 5000 piece toolkit and saying 'get on with it, lad'.
Jay said:
quote:
I do and I've been using pc's for 25 years, having a pc in the home since I was 12.
I thought you were 40 by now?
the math just ain't working!
quote:
I have no stability problems with XP SP2.
Deane F - I'm pleased to note that I'm not the only one with zero stability issues with XP SP2! I'm a mac user at heart, just keep missing the opportunity to make a move to one.
Posted on: 20 July 2007 by Jay
quote:
Originally posted by Rico:
Jay said:
quote:
I do and I've been using pc's for 25 years, having a pc in the home since I was 12.
I thought you were 40 by now?
the math just ain't working!
dream on dude. I'm a baby compared to you, in face and mind
Posted on: 20 July 2007 by Rico
Jay, I'd never associated you with whining and crapping your pants!
if you insist on being referred to as 'baby', we might need some time to adjust. windows OS takes time to make these kinds of changes.
Posted on: 20 July 2007 by Macker
quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
You can only share the Public folder by default on OS X for security reasons.
Hope this helps, Rotf
Thank you ROTF, at least I now know...if I had time to delve into MAC OS a bit more then I am sure it would all come a little easier, unfortunately there is not much demand for me to know, so I don't....
Oh and the irony of my nicname is not lost on me either...it comes from my surname
Posted on: 22 July 2007 by Deane F
quote:
Originally posted by Jay:
What's the card? I bought a Radeon 9700 when first released for a ridiculous amount of money. I had far too much time!
It's an Asus N7900GT TOP (factory overclock). Very good card - but with DirectX 10 cards out now, it's out of date. Not that I'll be going to Vista though - until, that is, developers start to code for DirectX 10 as a minimum. I'd rather buy another 7900GT card and run them in SLI (interleaved).
Posted on: 22 July 2007 by Deane F
quote:
Originally posted by Jay:
Well I think it proves that the applications themselves are valued, not necessarily XP. You do still need XP to run them on a Mac anyway!
Well, surely the fact that nobody is dual-booting a PC to run a Mac OS proves that there is nothing special about any Mac apps?
Posted on: 22 July 2007 by garyi
No deanne, as I am sure you are aware (and presumably therefore baiting) Mac OSX never got hacked onto a PC successfully. The closest they got still had not true graphics drivers.
That is why OSX is not dual booted on a PC.
Posted on: 23 July 2007 by Jay
quote:
Originally posted by Deane F:
quote:
Originally posted by Jay:
Well I think it proves that the applications themselves are valued, not necessarily XP. You do still need XP to run them on a Mac anyway!
Well, surely the fact that nobody is dual-booting a PC to run a Mac OS proves that there is nothing special about any Mac apps?
As garyi alludes too, plenty of folks want to but they haven't managed to hack it yet.
Aperture's fantastic if you're into digital photography. I don't think that's available on the PC.
Posted on: 23 July 2007 by Jay
quote:
Originally posted by Rico:
Jay, I'd never associated you with whining and crapping your pants!
if you insist on being referred to as 'baby', we might need some time to adjust. windows OS takes time to make these kinds of changes.
I didn't actually mean I
was a baby but if you keep hassling me I'm going to tell my mum and she'll tell your mum that you've been bad and you'll be sent to bed early. so, so....just watch out.
Posted on: 23 July 2007 by garyi
Andrew Randle regarding your terminal issue:
http://macworld.com/2603Apparently this free utility will put the terminal always at your finger.
Posted on: 23 July 2007 by Deane F
quote:
Originally posted by garyi:
No deanne, as I am sure you are aware (and presumably therefore baiting) Mac OSX never got hacked onto a PC successfully. The closest they got still had not true graphics drivers.
That is why OSX is not dual booted on a PC.
No garyi, I am not baiting. My responses have been moderate and my arguments have been reasoned.
Yes, many may have tried to "hack" a Mac OS onto a PC - but for what reason? Is it because of the legendary utility of Mac OSX that causes PC owners everywhere to wish they had it? Or could it be that a few geeks just want to be able to do it because then they can say they've done it? Some people love reverse-engineering - it's how Linux is made to run on a diverse range of machines.
Posted on: 23 July 2007 by Deane F
garyi
What's your explanation for the lack of the Mac's success in the marketplace?
Myself, I thought the reasons for this were very well set out in the video that started this topic.
Posted on: 23 July 2007 by Jay
quote:
Originally posted by Deane F:
What's your explanation for the lack of the Mac's success in the marketplace?
what do you mean? apple's doing rather well. market performance is much more than just about market share of a specific category.
next
Posted on: 23 July 2007 by Patrick F
bollocks
Posted on: 23 July 2007 by u5227470736789439
All of it? Some of it? Which bit or bits? One words does not quite make it clear. Fredrik
Posted on: 23 July 2007 by Deane F
quote:
Originally posted by Jay:
market performance is much more than just about market share of a specific category.
Ok. Tell me about how the Mac's market performance compares to the PC (without mentioning its share of the market).
Posted on: 23 July 2007 by Deane F
quote:
Originally posted by Rico:
Difficult analogy - A hammer has two uses: hitting things, and (if it's a claw hammer), removing nails. A drill drills things. A computer OTOH is a whole toolkit laid out before you - a little like giving a first-day mechanics apprentice a 5000 piece toolkit and saying 'get on with it, lad'.
I agree - it was a facile comparison. The design process is what I was trying to get at though.
To be fair, computers have not in the past had the processing power for fancy interfaces - which is why I can remember the command line interface on school computers. But programmers these days seem too distanced from both their customers and the rest of the industrial design world - and their results speak volumes about this. With most applications using incredibly small percentages of system resources somebody ought to be able to do better. The person that does will have the next killer app.
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by Huwge
My favourite measure is
share price. I bought Apple shares in 2002, as I wanted to support the company and I liked their brand. I have not seen this performance matched by a PC company.
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by Exiled Highlander
quote:
Originally posted by Deane F:
Ok. Tell me about how the Mac's market performance compares to the PC (without mentioning its share of the market).
Deane
I think you will find that Jay said Apple was doing rather well....
go here and click on Stock Info followed by Stock Chart....nothing to do with relative mkt share of the Mac itself but all about company performance. BTW, Apple is now pushing and will likely overtake Gateway to become the 3rd largest PC supplier by volume in the US this quarter - not bad for a manufacturer with a non mainstream OS is it? From memory it's about 5.5% which is double (approx) what it was two years ago. Most CEO's would be happy with 100% volume growth in that time period.
Cheers
Jim
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by Exiled Highlander
Huwge
Crossed posts!
Jim
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by Exiled Highlander
quote:
Originally posted by Exiled Highlander:
quote:
Originally posted by Deane F:
Ok. Tell me about how the Mac's market performance compares to the PC (without mentioning its share of the market).
Deane
I think you will find that Jay said Apple was doing rather well....
go here and click on Stock Info followed by Stock Chart....nothing to do with relative mkt share of the Mac itself but all about company performance. BTW, Apple is now pushing and will likely overtake Gateway to become the 3rd largest PC supplier by volume in the US this quarter - not bad for a manufacturer with a non mainstream OS is it? From memory it's about 5.5% which is double (approx) what it was two years ago. Most CEO's would be happy with 100% volume growth in that time period.
This gives you the data...
Cheers
Jim
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by Deane F
So, in the US Apple ships 4.8% of all personal computers. This is a very small share of the market - no matter how you express the figures. Whether or not they'll grow past Gateway's share is completely beside the point - the important figures are 100% and 4.8%.
Share price performance for Apple cannot be explained by the Mac. Apple have the iPod to thank for that.
quote:
From memory it's about 5.5% which is double (approx) what it was two years ago.
Nothing to do with the fact that the Mac can
finally run a
mainstream OS, is it? Hell, there's now
commercial software for the Mac that allows it to do this, isn't there?
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by Huwge
Not really sure the point you are trying to make, you are obviously happy with a Windows based operating system - others are not.
Irrespective of that view, I am happy that I have a stock that currently sits at 300% above purchase price over a 5 year period.
Microsoft have lost 60% of their value over the same period.
From a purely financial perspective, that is the benchmark of success.
I am happy to use Macs, but also use a PC. For me it is nice to be able to differentiate between something I use for pleasure and something that allows me to earn my money, without necessarily being a pleasure to use.
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by Exiled Highlander
Deane
Not sure why you feel the need to embolden text and effectively shout but feel free.
You did manage to distort the facts and ignore the main point.
Market share grew from 4.8% to 5.6% a 26% increase -it's not 4.8% as you stated. To also claim that the only numbers that matter are 4.8% (sic) and 100% is also meaningless.
No one is trying to argue that Mac sales rival Dell and HP but growth is an important indicator and in part explains Apple's current stock value.
If you are trying to explain the current growth by claiming that it is as a result of having Bootcamp or Parallels available so that XP (your Mainstream OS presumably?) can be run as a virtual machine within OSX then you are in a minority of one I would guess.
Not quite sure why you have the Mac animosity as it's simply a means to an end like all PC's. I say that as a user who has a Mac network at home and who's day job (among other things) is managing tens of thousands of PC's for multiple companies within a highly managed enterprise environments.
Horses for courses.
Cheers
Jim
Posted on: 24 July 2007 by Exiled Highlander
Huwge
We need to stop agreeing like this....people will talk!
Jim
