So how much of my Supercap am I using?

....must admit I also have the same thoughts constantly (I too have a 282 + Supercap), because although it sounds superb, it's these nagging thoughts about unused potential that drive you into upgrade thoughts. I'm sure it's all part of some cunning Salisbury master plan to rule the world....

FWIW I have an olive S'Cap driving my 82; my understanding is that about 40% of its capacity is used with the 82. For full usuage the 52 is required.

I am saving up.

Regards

Mike

On the Yellow Brick Road and happy

It's very difficult to derive the concept of "percentage" of use. Yes, the 82 uses only some of the regulated supplies. However, any additional load will affect the entire circuit. Therefore, all those unused regulated supplies won't be mucking up the sound of the supplies that you do use.

So in a way, a 252 actually screws with itself. Got it?

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Interesting comments.

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So in a way, a 252 actually screws with itself. Got it?

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I'm sure it's all part of some cunning Salisbury master plan to rule the world....

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So it looks like when the next upgrade option is a 252 (or a 52) you have reached the crossroads where the active passive option kicks in and the idea of SNAXO's and more Supercaps comes on line.

Maybe the 282 (or 82)/250 combo is the best place to be unless you can afford to go all the way up to the 552/500. (In my dreams).

Geoff

Even if You use only two rails in the SC, it´s still superior compared with a HC as the quality of theese 24 v are different.
Easily done by comparing the two feeding a Prefix!

/Erik

PS I think You use 4/7 of the SC to a 82/282.DS

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Originally posted by mrbassman:
Hi, just as a thought, maybe with the 282 / 82 the 2 hicap option is better VFM as you get
to use the full potential of both.
This only works if you intend to stop at 282 / 82 I suppose !!
Mark

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Mark, your thought isn't true, I disagree. A 82 with supercap sounds better then a 82
with two hicaps, although the 82/282 could not use the full potential of the supercap.

Regards
Hannes

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Mark, your thought isn't true, I disagree. A 82 with supercap sounds better then a 82
with two hicaps, although the 82/282 could not use the full potential of the supercap.

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I ran my 282 with 2 HiCaps for a while, the Supercap was bought as an upgrade to that.
It is early days yet but I can already confirm that the Supercap is far better than the 2 HiCaps on my 282.

Once it has fully burned in I will make a final comment on that but I am already clear that the SC was an excellent investment.

regards
GEOFF

Question: has anyone done an Olive-versus-NewLook Supercap comparison, and is there much in the way of difference, musically speaking?

John

TC '..'
"Sun went down in honey. Moon came up in wine. Stars were spinnin' dizzy, Lord, the band kept us so busy we forgot about the time."

How much of the Supercap are you using ? Well 100% of the transformer and 100% of the smoothing capacitors for a start. As for the odd unused regulator or two, well they are just lurking on the off-chance you might want to upgrade to a 252 one day and you don't want to ditch your lovely powersupply. Bargain really.

Allan

Will be picking up my supercap2 latter 2day or tomorrow. Initially it will be powering my trusty old 72, until I can arrive at some decision btw. the 282/252 in my sys. (cdxii/xps2/black250/neat vitos). The 282 w/2 hicaps was a fun combo & a big step in the direction I'd like to go. It really allowed the cdxii/xps2/vitos to 'come on sound' and show what they r all about. Really fun stuff! What to do, what to do......

Regis

So I guess I'll be using what, 5% of the super2? I'm kinda interested in hearing if there will be any improvement over my older hicap thru the 72. I've grown very fond of that 1/2 size box over the yrs, will be sorry to see it go....

Regis

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Originally posted by Regis:
So I guess I'll be using what, 5% of the super2? I'm kinda interested in hearing if there will be any improvement over my older hicap thru the 72.

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I once tried my Super-Cap with my 32.5. I was astonished at how magical that little box could sound. Since a 32.5 is only slightly below a 72, I would expect you to be very happy indeed! You won't be missing that Hi-Cap for long.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

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From PR:
Obviously the SuperCap is better than 2 HiCaps, which are around £1600 new, but Naim could design a SuperCap for an 82 only, at around £1200 from my calculations. I think that's the point.

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From Allan:
How much of the Supercap are you using ? Well 100% of the transformer and 100% of the smoothing capacitors for a start. As for the odd unused regulator or two, well they are just lurking on the off-chance you might want to upgrade to a 252 one day and you don't want to ditch your lovely powersupply. Bargain really.

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Allan I have to agree somewhat with PR. You can just see the big Capacitors lurking on the right of my pickky. They ain't much different from the pair you get in a Hicap, and the Torodial though not shown is about the same size as in a Hicap.

Given that, logic would suggest 2 Hicaps would almost be on a par with a SC into a 282 but they certainly are'nt based on what I am hearing.
For sure there is some magic going on here. It would just be nice to have it a slightly lower price (wistfull comment).

Of course like the rest of us here I am trapped and can only kick & scream as I am dragged towards my next upgrade!

GEOFF

Its a fair cop, guv'nor

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I’m using a 282 with 2 Hicaps & find it very enjoyable.

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Richard just out of interest are your 2 Hicaps the same age?
I believe this is quite important. I ran my 282 with 2 which were different ages (1993 & 2000) for a while.
I was also running a stageline powered by the 282 which I removed. The fact that the 282 was suddenly not being asked to power the stageline gave a noticeable lift to the quality of the sound.
As a result for an experiment decide to try 1 Hicap on my 282 and the other on the stageline.
I removed the older Hicap and played the 282 off just the one newer Hicap. The result was an IMPROVEMENT over the sound I has with the two "unmatched" Hicaps driving the 282.

BTW you are right to stay away from the SC. One listen and you will be doomed. It is quite impressive.

Geoff

Hi,
Reading this with interest as I'm about to get a 282 and power it with one Hi-cap for a short while. I assume the consensus would be to go straight from 1 hi-cap to supercap? (MY CDX2 will also be XPS2'd at the same time)
This seems to make sense cost wise (well it did when I explained it to my missus LOL)..

so what I'm saying is as and when I upgrade the PSU to the 282 I'm better jumping straight to a supercap...

regards,
andy c!

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From Andy c
so what I'm saying is as and when I upgrade the PSU to the 282 I'm better jumping straight to a supercap...

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From Mark
The saving gives me a good start on a fraim or XPS2 and stops me looking at a 252 !!

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For info I actually just added a Fraim aswell as changing to a Supercap as a chrissy present to myself. What this means is my "new" sound is not the result of a straight change from HiCap to SC.
I did listen to the XPS2 onto the CDX2 instead of an SC onto the 282 to see which was the best "next step" in my system.

So here goes with a few comments:

Base demo system: CDX2/282/1 HiCap/250mk2 on Hutter into a pair of Spendor Floorstanders (Sorry don't know eaxct model no. but they "do bass" well)
This sounded as I would expect, since it was a close match for the sound I was hearing at home out of this setup with Totem Mani-2 speakers. IMHO this is a very good system as it stands, The bare CDX2 is excellent already, bringing detail and clarity, which the 282 transfers with good control and results in the sort of meaty sound that the 250mk2 is capable of with good control in the bass and plenty of sparkle in the higher end.

Swapping the Hicap for a NEW Supercap2
The improvement is obvious as heard but a bit harder to describe. For those that have experienced the effect of adding a HiCap to a pre-power combo which was using the power amp to supply the pre before, the sound change is somewaht similar when swapping a SC for a HiCap but on a grander scale. The same deepening of the sound stage and the feeling that the instruments playing have taken on a new richness. Note: allow for the fact that the SC was delivered the day before and had only run overnight,which means it was still in the "sounds great straight out of the box" phase which will drift away and then comeback and mature some more.

Adding the XPS2 ON TOP of the Supercap
I did'nt have time to try the XPS2 with a HiCap driving the 282 so since I was already "sold" on the Supercap we did this demo so I could hear what extra would come from an XPS2. Well this deos not leap out and hit you in the face, it is quite subtle. Listening into the music is where the differences show up. The Bass delivery which was already well controlled in general became firmer. I had commented a little earlier in the demo that the Spendor's were sounding a little bit "boxy" in the bass region. With the XPS2 in place the slight boxiness went away. A small edginess of higher frequency sounds was taken away and it became more apparent how the sound of say a cymbal strike or a tinkling bell started and finished. The indivdual instrument locations also seemed to seperate a little more sharply so each was fully in it's place. I stress that we are not talking about major changes but subtle additions in the overall feel and complexity of the sound coming off the CD.

Putting it all on FRAIM
Well this was a leap of faith since I have had it all on a basic cheap glass shelf affair at home until now. However this is where you get the biggest "bang for your buck" as they say. Everything you put on a fraim shelf improves. So I am sitting here right now hearing a completely new sound. It all just got more focused. There is a solidity to what you hear which comes into the music. You can crank the volume way up and the edginess and harsh sound you expect to set in just does'nt seem to happen (at least as far up as I was prepared to go (around 11.30 -12.00 on the 282 volume control.
A feeling sets in that any difference you are hearing in the quality of the music from track to track is definitely on the CD and not in the way the system is playing it.

So there you go. IMHO grading the improvements on a VFM basis the Fraim makes the biggest difference, since it improves all the parts of the system. The Supercap comes next in order for the way it enriches the total sound and the XPS2 comes in third for the way it introduces more subtlty and detail into the individual sounds in the music.
IPut it this way I can quite happily live without the XPS2 provided I can keep the fraim and the supercap. I think maybe the point at which the XPS2 would figure (automatically of course) would be if i ever decided to pop for a CDS3, but that is a long way out.
I was up until 3am last nite listening to my "new" music

regards
GEOFF

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Originally posted by Richard Noel Jones:
[...]
And I could not explain the cost to the wife.
So I will live with what I got till I know I am ready to make that big leap.

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Richard,
these arguments are really true.
Naim should combine its most expensive kits with some jewellery to get the
wife satisfied, too ... :-)

And having heard a better upgrade kit could someone prevent from a good sleep.
It was my own experience the last two weeks :-)

Best regards
HANNES

Regis,

So I'm guessing you replaced the tweeters in your Neats? How is it sounding now?

cheers

Dan

Hi Dan,

Very, very well thank you. Both tweeters on the Vitos were blown & needed replaced. Truely I've really never heard how good they can be because of the lengthy 'upgrade' process.

I picked 'em up 'slightly used' almost 2 yrs ago via audiogon. My then set up was a 140/hi/72/credos purchased up in Seattle in 96'via Bob @Hawthorne in the U. District. I've since moved to Colorado & have been getting my 'black boxes' via Rick @Audio Alternative in Ft. Collins.

This yr. I've taken the plunge, after the folks Mike Pranka at Neat U.S., helped replace the Vitos 'blown ribbon tweeters'. Thanx again Mike. I am as still unsure as to when or how such occured, oh well.... Regardless they sound fabulous now.

I've migrated from the 140 to the new 250 which seems to have settle in nicely. I was shutting it down for a while last summer but a change in rack location seems to have alleviated the overheating. Not exactly a source first approach but I'm getting there.

Actually when the Vitos became available I got such a great deal I couldn't resist. It's hard to find any available info on them but Neats smaller boxes r so well respected I took the plunge. Truely they r beautiful in their 'purplish wood veneer' they change w/the lighting & look like nothing else. I hadn't even heard what they r capable of up until a couple weekends ago.

Went from cd5 to a cdx2, bit the bullet & bought the xps2. So until last week was running cdx2/xps2/72/hi/250. Nice...but our room in 25/26'w/16'vaulted cielings. I was looking for a much bigger & well defined soundstage.

Rick loaned me a 282 & extra hicap for the weekend & things started to get interesting fast. The 250/Vitos began to boggie like there was no tomorrow! Thc cdx2/xps2 which I knew were just hidding in there somewhere, really start to come out & I suddenly had a large soundstage w/detail & extension at both hi & looooow frequencies.

If 2 hicaps were such fun, why not just get the supercap2 & lay the groundwork for 'doubling the pleasure' so to say, and that is what I did this last weekend. Putting the olive 72 into the middle of all that pretty 'black kit'.

No, its not as big or as fun as the 282w/2hi's, its like a smaller version. The soundstage exist mostly btw. the speakers & the images have sharpened up considerably vs a single hicap. The largest imporvements has been one of dynamics. You don't get the additional detail that the 282 provides but the added definition & overall prat still make the whole thing fun.

I can't wait to turn this beast loose on the end of a 252/Fraim! Anybody else running Vitos on the end of such? Damn they sounded good w/282/250. Best yet, anyone biamp these 'dogs' w/a pr. of 250's? That what Bob @Neat suggest. What can I expect? from what I can gather 'isobariks' may benefit from the passive route rather more so than other speaker designs. Why should this be?

In the meantime the 72 is just a 'wee bit of a bottlenect' but certainly not an unbearable nor an unpleasant one. Considering its age & cost it wears its colors well....

The 250/Vitos/cdx2/xps2 w/2hicap & 282 gives a big, detailed, punchy, rythemic, & enthusiastic soundstage w/beautifully rythemic & extended bass & incisive, yet sweetly extended hi's. It's a boogie monster!;-)

I don't anticipate that the cdx2/xps2 will be revealed as 'unworthy sources' driving a 252/super2. What do you think?

The defining character of the cdx2/xps2 may be incisive & excitable yet passionately persuasive. The combo would seem to demand your attention & challenge you to become rythemically involved w/the music in a almost primal/gut/Naimish way. A true charmer for the animal snake within.....

Regis

Regis

the Supercap will reinforce how good a preamp the NAC72 is. You'll be rather surprised, I'd expect. "life in the old dog yet".

As for the "oh it looks about the same as a HiCap... Naim take a bit more care with the supercap, IIRC the coils are the better coils of the batches, and it takes about a day to build one (not including the modules). Tres labour intensive.

HTH

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio