critical listening session

I would suspect that you are hearing some of the original "warts" in the recording sessions and the difference in how the microphones, etc. were placed. I would suspect that when you here the same CD's on one of the other systems, that the differences will still be there, but may not be as pronounced.

Keep us posted on how the listening sessions go.

James

I've noticed a similar effect with my kit - am I right in thinking a test with one of those Radio Shack level meters & a descending test tone help to ID the "missing" freqs, then re-playing those freqs & re-measuring after each LS move would be a good plan (obviously followed by the acid test - play the music again! )

J

Been there done that. I'm using a CD5 with HiCap but no other Naim boxes, so the usual pinch of salt (if not a handfull) should be taken.

The CD5 was slotted into a 15 year old system which I knew very well. Nothing else was changed apart from the interconnects (Chord) between CDP and amp. After brun in I experienced similar effects. Very tuneful and fast bass, sometimes well weighted, other times gutless - still there and still tuneful but somehow lacking in authority.

A HiCap came soon after and the usual run in time observed. The result was yet more detail and sparkle, but FAR too much bass on most recordings. Overblown and slow. The whole sound just got boomed to blazes. It was only then that the penny dropped about room effects and speaker positioning. The speakers came away from the walls and corners in stages and ended up at a distance I could scarcely believe possible (a couple of feet). All is now well and from time to time I make minor adjustements. A difference of 1-2cm in the wrong direction can throw everything out - and it's usually the bass that goes haywire. The speakers have ended up just over a foot from the rear wall and a similar distance from the corners.

Of course, my room is unique, just like yours. I'm running Ruark Talismans off an Audio Innovations 500 tube job (modified and with external Power Supply) so our systems probably couldn't be more different. Nevertheless, room effects are well worth investigating and it won't cost you nowt.

Cheers

Harry

Thanks for this advice. I'm going to suggest to my wife I spend tomorrow moving speakers around - I'll be OK as long as they're not so far from the wall she can't see the TV from the dining table

Woody

Defenitely keep on the good side of your wife.
The best way to do this is to sit and listen whilst she moves the speakers and give her occasional instructions like Left a bit, right a bit.

I'm being serious. I had to do it on my own. I wore a track in the carpet and rubbed the paint off the naim pause button. However it was worth it.
Don't be surprised if you have to come quite far out from the corners to get a good balance of frequencies.

GEOFFP

don't try this at home

quote:

---

Originally posted by Geoff P:
Definitely keep on the good side of your wife.
The best way to do this is to sit and listen whilst she moves the speakers

---

Look at Geoff's whereabouts, Woody, and you'll see he is clearly married to one of these Giant Dutch Women. This explains a lot.

Herman

And she wears clogs at the same time.

err...MY wife moving speakers? don't think so - she thinks this hifi stuff is a bit scarey and further proof of men's strangeness!
Anyway, yesterday moved spkrs about (another) 10cm from wall (they are either side of a fireplace and don't stand near side walls) and toed them in more than they were (another of my problems was a bit of a hole in stereo image) to see what would happen and the sound has changed quite a bit (dunno if it's for the better yet but definitely more bass - which is weird as I thought rear wall reinforced bass) so I guess a few more fun filled evenings ahead to optimise things
BTW: could the huge hole (fireplace) between speakers be adversely affecting things? Also, room is *very* un-hifi friendly (solid wooden floor on concrete, hard surfaces everywhere). Pic of room should be here (taken a while ago before speakers moved away from wall and toed in more - oh yeah the place is a mess [told to say that!!!!]):

Woody--

Two things come immediately to mind. First, your system is simply revealing what is or is not on a given recording. One of the hallmarks of a good system, for me, is that it changes character with every new CD or LP. To me, that means it is letting more of what is on the record through.

Second, room interactions, as James pointed out. A system that reaches farther and with more authority into the bass will excite room modes more and can sound boomy. You just have to play with room furnishings, placement, etc.

Best,

Bob

Nice write-up. You will certainly hear differences in my stuff - check out the "Sistem Pics" thread (from about page 31 ish) and "night listening" thread for some of the advice I was given by forum members - all kicked off by Herman, but decended into a debate about relationship values

-- woody

Woody,

Glad to see that you're still alive.



Regards,

Steve.

You'll never believe it but she *loves* the way it sounds now
And doesn't mind the slabs or the bottles on the floor (she even said it was worth it). Blimey!

-- woody

Well, between us it's a forum result.

Someone (in fact everyone) is happy and that's the main thing.



Regards,

Steve.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steven Toy:
Well, between us it's a forum result.

Someone (in fact everyone) is happy and that's the main thing.



Regards,

Steve.

---

I'll be even happier when I've upgraded electronics

-- woody

But will Mrs Woody notice the taller boxes and gaping hole in your bank balance?

Seth
Is Naim the only way forward?
Ahh, Ahh! I'm burning!!

Before you begin experimenting with cables, might I humbly suggest you mess around a little with your speaker positioning. Some of what you describe might be associated with speaker location. Not knowing anything about how your speakers are positioned, let me say you may find that imaging "changes" (hopefully, an improvement) if you move your speakers out into the room. You may also find that this affects tonal balance and reduces the prominance of the bass.

Happy experimenting...

Markus
=

quote:

---

Originally posted by Maxi Me:
But will Mrs Woody notice the taller boxes and gaping hole in your bank balance?

Seth
_Is Naim the only way forward?
Ahh, Ahh! I'm burning!!_

---

err....yup

-- woody

just a suggestion but try your music through a pair of decent headphones. test your the tracks were the bass is good and the ones were the bass is gutless see if its the same through headphones.

good luck

liam

I'd then have to buy a headphone amp and some decent headphones, though

-- woody

A decent h/p amp (Rega Ear) costs just over £100, and you can get a pair of HD600s from Askdirect for about 130 quid.

Now that the HD650 is being launched, the price of HD 600s should fall even further.

I prefer the bass definition from my amps/speakers but the difference isn't that great, and in a few mins I'll hook up the headphones to lull me to sleep - no sonic nasties there to keep me awake, and good PR&T is actually rather soothing.

Oh, and woody, we men are a bit strange from the woman's angle, but already your missus is able to appreciate how your system is more enjoyable than it was, following those little tweaks that cost precisely f*ck-all!

Mine has got great perspective though - it came from her not me that the price of an XPS2 (or in your case a CDX2) is roughly the cost of her frittering away 50 quid each week on a Saturday for a year on skirts/tops, shoes, or clothing accessories that may only be worn once. Again in her own words, if *that* upgrade does make a big difference then it's got to be worth it in the long run.

I'm lucky to have a woman who can see things from more than one angle and accept that both genders may have their idiosyncracies in the eyes of the other.

If men are from Mars and women are from venus, then surely the point of men and women being together is that they can at least enjoy the journeys to each others' respective planets.



Regards,

Steve.

[This message was edited by Steven Toy on SATURDAY 01 November 2003 at 06:38.]

Toy Love

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steven Toy:
I'm lucky to have a woman who can see things from more than one angle and accept that both genders may have their idiosyncracies in the eyes of the other.
If men are from Mars and women are from venus, then surely the point of men and women being together is that they can at least enjoy the journeys to each others' respective planets.

---

Am I maybe just too respectful of other people's feelings if I say it's getting time Steven opens a special Mars / Venus thread to celebrate the marvels of his very special fiancée, as an uniquely sensitive and understanding whatever woman?

Clearly Toy Love is a topic we need to be kept posted on, but I'm not entirely sure we do her full justice by discussing her (on & on) among cables, power supplies and stands. So how about giving the future Mrs Toy a thread all of her own?

Herman

Bitter, twisted (and probably lonely) old man.

Such a thread would be irrelevant here. The point of my postings here is that some women deliberately get in the way of hi-fi for no reason. Some don't.

If we can somehow overcome their fears/perceptions of nerdiness in us then fewer of them will.



Regards,

Steve.

Steve you are a one.

I know Gary, I know.

If Herman wants to be a really good forum critic/pundit/commentator, he could improve his style by focusing more on what is said, i.e: the thrust of the argument.

Alternatively he could limit his pearls of wisdom to his very own thread in which he could then discuss the virtues of other members' partners to his heart's content. It would be a bit like those magazines that tell you the latest about soaps - you can read about them instead of watching them.



Regards,

Steve.

If we focus on what you're saying, well, in a lot of cases it's bullshit - such as recently trying to persuade someone to change his entire sistem into Densen (or whatever) in order to save one space in his stand. Ya right. So that's why it's useful to wonder why you're posting this bullshit - because so many of your posts are pieces of self-congratulation that are just begging to be made fun of.

Remember the time you were whimpering it wasn't fair people made fun of you & your girlfriend? you were simply unaware that, again, you were just inviting comments, by the way you keep talking about your having gotten hold of a future Mrs Toy as a unique event in human history. Other guys should be so lucky! is clearly your thinking. Everybody who doesn't join you in toy congratulation has to be a sad case waiting for a piece of your advice.

Maybe it's just the cab driver's occupational hazard, but really it's you who is constantly fussing about other people's relationships, and how they're not as good as you and the future mrs Toy. I think that calls for a little deflationary humor, occasionally. That's all.

Herman