The Death of HD DVD ???

toshiba ?????

neil

neill,
from what i have read
toshiba and microsoft as in x-box 360 are hd
samsung, panasonic, pioneer, ps3, blue-ray,

As with VHS v. Betamax - the winner (if, as the consumer should pray, one does emerge as dominant) will be decided by factors not necessarily related to quality.

We may be in for a long and tedious scuffle.

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
As with VHS v. Betamax - the winner will be decided by factors not necessarily related to quality.

You could be right there: Click

Astounding, but perversely logical...

$57BILLION per annum! Good grief!

They have learned nothing at all from the SuperAudio-CD vs. DVD-Audio debacle!

Here we go again: Next platform war, next fiasco...

I agree with Adam. This has nothing at all to do with quality! That's only their enduser marketing blabla.
Behind our backs, it's about getting their patents paid, forcing stronger copy protection in, and sell you the same content for the x-th time on another media, before they go completely online only.

Makes me sad, that quality is becoming an extinct type (besides some rare spots like this forum).

clearly, the future is in networked, online stored material (note: I HATE this perspective!). for the years to come, I guess that HD-DVD will be the winner, although I'd prefer see the blu ray disc win. Xmas is there and millions of people own - or will own - a HD DVD player on their x360, while only a few tenth of thousands people will own a PS3. Microsoft is a strong HD DVD supporter, as well as Hewlett-Packard, which is the biggest computer seller in the world. I fear Sony as done it once again: great technology, but - for some reasons - unability to put in on the market, at least right on time. last but not least: hybrid HD DVD can be read by standard dvd players (just like hybrid SACD can be read on standard cd players), which allows a smooth transition of both the format and the technology with no urge of hardware upgrade on the consumer side. dual-format projects have recently been aborted, mostly due to the cost of the blu-ray licencing system. on a more psychologic side, HD DVD sounds just like a "DVD+" thing to the final consumer, which seems more "comfortable" than this new, blu-ray thing!

perhaps hd-dvd will win, i don't know, the only thing that confuses me is, i keep reading that in time because of the protection issues, you will only be able to out-put hd via hdmi, so people with the add on to the x-box will be stuffed, as it will still only out-put via component, also getting back to the hdmi thing will you still be able to use dvi ?

Initial reviews of some machines seem to indicate that the promised improvements may await refinement - rather than new technology alone.

There are endless debates on this topic all over the internet and as people have said this one will run and run.

Personally, I picked up an HD-DVD player simply on price. At £399 including 7 HD-DVDs, it was a tough one to ignore and I haven't been disappointed at all.

It is a phenomenal picture and a real step up on my DVD5 (which I expected) but the surprising thing for me was the sound quality. That too is very very impressive and more than a match for the DVD5 too only on HD-DVDs - especially with a Dolby TrueHD soundtrack.

Quality may not ultimately be deciding factor. But if it's price, then HD-DVD has got off to a very good start.

It's interesting that 12 months ago most of those who follow these sort of things would have predicted that blu-ray was the way to go with it's theoretically better specification and stronger manufacturer and studio support.

Since then, blu-ray has had simply a terrible start - poorly performing initial players lacking in features such as suppport for the advanced audio codecs, production problems with dual-layer disks resulting in single layer disks with poor transfers, late arrival and high prices.

On the other hand, HD-DVD has had a better start than anyone could have imagined for a first generation product. The G1 machines might have been a bit clunky but right out the gate they were recognised as setting the standard for the best audio and video quality of any source or format available and at a price that was lower than anyone expected. Blu-ray is now playing catch-up, where titles are available in both formats, the picture quality tends to be the same or in HD-DVD's favour. It's still unheard of for a blu-ray title to look better than HD-DVD so at this point in time the technical advantages of blu-ray haven't really materialised.

Things might start to swing in blu-ray's favour next year but everything points to the fact now that we'll see both formats running in parallel for a number of years to come. However, DVD doesn't look like disapearing anytime soon either so if the advantages of HD-DVD or blu-ray don't appeal, don't buy, stick with what you have.

Me, I'll go for both, choose titles freely and not be too worried about any format war. Total cost of entry to buy a player for each format - about £6-700. I don't think that's overly expensive, a decent DVD player alone still costs more than that.

Allan

neil w

i was having a blone moment and forgot the iba !!!

Neill

quote:

the only thing that confuses me is, i keep reading that in time because of the protection issues, you will only be able to out-put hd via hdmi, so people with the add on to the x-box will be stuffed

Not really, for the following reasons:

1. This won't happen for at least three years.

2. Microsoft will bring out an HDMI connector for the Xbox 360, probably early/mid next year.

3. The Microsoft HD-DVD add-on is not just for the Xbox. It uses a USB connection, people are playing HD-DVD's on PCs using this drive right now. Windows Vista will handle the protection issue when it arrives.

4. At £130, worst case, this is a disposable device

5. eBay!

quote:

clearly, the future is in networked, online stored material

As part of the HD-DVD standard, all players must include an ethernet port, take a look on the back. This is only being partly used to-date to download firmware updates via the internet but the intent of HD-DVD players are ultimately as access points to a networked entertainment system. This is Microsofts big push and reason for involvement with HD-DVD. With future HD-DVD players (maybe even current ones with a firmware update) you will be able to use your HD-DVD player(s) to access and play music and high definition movies (downloaded or copied from your original disks) stored on PC's or servers elsewhere in the house or, if you'd prefer, just pop a disk in and play the optical media directly.

Allan

keep an eye on the economy. to successfully launch a new format you need consumers in the right (upbeat) mood - purchasing new technology. otherwise it will end up living-dead as SACD and DVD-A.

If we're talking picture wise and surround sound wise, then yes and maybe.
But I don't think a £399 dvd player even though HD will do music like the dvd5.

quote:

Originally posted by zorba:
If we're talking picture wise and surround sound wise, then yes and maybe.
But I don't think a £399 dvd player even though HD will do music like the dvd5.

Only time and the end of the war will tell...

ok

I have owned a unidisc 2.1 and the meridian g98 and now have a dvd5. out of them all the dvd 5 has been the best value pic wise i felt the meridian was the best.

so price means nothing. It could well be that a £1000 blu ray or hd dvd player can out perform a dvd 5 with music

its got me thinking will any of these two formats finally replace cd, will we all end up only having one system that does everything???. making say a 555 a bad buy in a few years or is that a long time off.

its a good point about hd dvd having the ethernet port looking at how big the i pod has become does mirco soft have one eye on the download market. i think so. and i didn't know that about hd dvd.


Neill

zorba

people wont be buying a hddvd player for music
imho if you want music buy a dedicated cd player

picture wise the £130 xbox drive will beat a dvd5
as hddvd and dvd are not the same beast

neil

@Allan: thanks for the info! I didn't know HD DVD players were thought to be used this way.

@neil w: "people wont be buying a hddvd player for music imho if you want music buy a dedicated cd player"

while this statement may seem obvious to most people on this forum (not to me though), we must agree that about 95% of the final consumers don't even know what their player can and can't do. most people have DVD-A and SACD capable players without even being aware that these things actually exist.

If its all about number crunching then why don't my pioneer 656 do music? It's got 192khz Burr Brown dacs the same make as what many high end machines use.

Being Naim I doubt if they overlooked music reproduction when building the dvd5. Its certainly the case with the n-Vi which is very musical and shows that you can have high end performance in a box.

Whether dvd5 = cd5i + £1650 video circuitry or nearly cd5x + £1000 video circuitry I could live with either.

Some people don't just watch movies with a dvd player.

quote:

Originally posted by zorba:
If its all about number crunching then why don't my pioneer 656 do music?

Some people don't just watch movies with a dvd player.

I think it greatly depends of what you system is made of (not speaking of price or anything here). my pioneer dv-939 turned out to be an incredible music machine the day I changed my pioneer Reference M73 amp for a pair of tube amps. the guy who sold me the amps was almost angry thinking I'd listen to music with a japanese dvd-player... then he heard the thing and had to revise some of his statements about Japan not being able to build music-able boxes

Neil,

Point taken regarding picture and the new format.

{OdS}

I do not doubt what you say.

I've had my player for 4 years. It did sound good but I can now detect veiling and compressed dynamics which may only be the fault of the receiver.

One decision has been made - Naim.
Which way? Only auditioning will tell.

Oh so much to do and so little time.

All

Having an x-box 360 and with the hd dvd add on now out. If I buy one do I have to buy British disc's. As I see that play usa has more hd dvd discs than the .com site. Will american discs work in the x-box add on or do you need a code or to get it chipped.

If anyone knows the answer to this can they let me know if the american disc from play usa will be ok or like I say its a no no.

I did read that machines from each region will only play discs from that region is this correct???

Neill