NAC282 a dissapointment !!!

Posted by: fled on 15 November 2003

Having been very very eager to upgrade my Pre-amp to either a new 282 or an old 82 (my current system is CD5+hi 102+Hi+Npcs olive250) I have eventually started the process with a home demo of the NAC282, with much excitment and anticipation I started friday night with good bottle of wine and settled down to what I thought would be a WOW expierence here are my thoughts...

yes its very smooth, yes it adds a little more weight.
No it hasnt added significantly more detail, No it hasnt given more PRAT !! infact I think its TOO smouth the music has lost a certain bite that I love.

Overall there is a real differnce in presentaion Is it better than the 102... sure, in certain areas, but in some I think it losses out in shear excitment and dare I say a little boring perhaps more akin to an ARCAM system.

So is it worth spending £2750 a resounding NO.
Is is worth spending £1200 on a few year old 82 probably yes.

Clearly there are folks who will love the NEW naim sound but as far as I can hear I am firmly in the olive camp !!

Let tirade of abuse begin !!

Phi
Posted on: 18 November 2003 by ken c
just to confirm what has already been said: price is not necessarily a reliable indicator of quality. certainly, fled's experience perhaps demonstrates that his CD player wasnt "maxed out". in any case, i dont believe this "maxed out" theory. no hifi component is 100%. better components downstream will always do a better job, in relative terms, with whatever signal they get. the "balance" issue comes into play when the better downstream component starts to "reveal" more of the short comings of any upstream component. therefore there is a point at which it doesnt makes sense to "improve" say the preamp, with the same CD player. how do you establish that point? by listening for yourself -- which is what fled has done and reported here. well done fled and

enjoy

ken

ps: on another point entirely, if my experience with the little nac112 is anything to go by, i predict i am going to like the new naim electronics -- i have pending demo of the 552... oops sorry, 252.
Posted on: 18 November 2003 by Lightkeeper
The end of the game !
Posted on: 18 November 2003 by kuma
quote:
Originally posted by Laurie Saunders:
Kuma.......I`m confused. How do you percieve that I am a "true flat earther"(look at my profile to see details of my kit.

I do not understand this term


Laurie,

Perhaps I've jumped the gun from your last responce.

quote:
My suspicion is that the new kit is far mor tolerant of less careful setup, and thus is likely to sound better in a wider range of circumstances.


I guess this depends on how you qualify * less careful*. Stick it in different systems, bad habits can show up.
Posted on: 18 November 2003 by Laurie Saunders
Kuma...I understand. By "setup" I mean supports, power supply, cabling etc. I guess that partnering equipment is also more critical, though I believe that my own system achieves "synergy" without using traditional "flat earth" sources and speakers.

I suppose that the inclusion of phono sockets on the new range does suggest an intention for matching with a wider range of ancilliaries

Laurie S
Posted on: 18 November 2003 by Geoff P
quote:
Hi Chaps,
hope the 282 isn't that disappointing, i've just bought one to go with CDX2/HICAP/250/SBL's replacing a 202.

Mr Bassman

Naaah! No worries with the CDX2 I reckon it's a perfect match and the 250 completes the picture. Just don''t go near a dealer for a while you know there are power supplies lurking there ready to ambush you.

Maybe a 2nd HiCap for the 282. By the way it does'nt need as long as the 250 but I thought about 2 weeks to get going from new.

Do stop listening and go out occasionally

GEOFFP
Posted on: 18 November 2003 by Jens
Hi Alex,

No the 82 has been replaced by a 52, and all the bits have been absorbed by the Australian Naim community. The 82 went to a Perth forum member who onsold his 32.5 to my brother in law. My brother in law then needed a Hicap, which is where yours went. Then a chap from Sydney was looking for a Hicap for his CD3.5, that's where the other one went. All boxes gone without a single advert on my part. An amazing international ripple effect that started when somebody in Singapore traded in his 52, probably for a 552 I guess.

Fled-I second Joolz advice-don't listen to a Supercap, it really transforms an 82 and then you'll start wondering what a 52 sounds like.

Cheers, Jens
Posted on: 18 November 2003 by Laurie Saunders
IMHO a s/h 52-scap must represent outstanding value for money right now. I still have a sense of awe with it.......when it is made to sing, a 52 can rub shoulders with the very best and remains a world/all time classic....marvellous stuff


IMHO the 52 along with the NAT01 are/were the real jewels in Naims crown

Laurie S
Posted on: 19 November 2003 by fled
god, dont give ideas !! Eek
this year in the s/h market I have added or upgraded 2x hicap, and 82 and a 250 all a couple of years old and mint, its wonderfull !!
And apart from a brief flirtation with thinking I would like new again (reason for this thread) I have returned to my quest to perfect my system with the best Naim system that my budget can afford. (I am sure I am not the only one who has to double spend on these things, I mean every item I spend I at least have to equal it with somthing my wife wants Roll Eyes)
Anyhow sould I get a cdx first or a supercap for my 82.
Joking of course Big Grin
Posted on: 19 November 2003 by fled
shock / horror you cant mention non Naim brands in a Naim forum Eek
Posted on: 19 November 2003 by fled
so similair to the reference series then Razz
Posted on: 20 November 2003 by Chris Dolan
A used 82 definitely represents fanatstic value for money.

Who would like to buy mine Wink
Posted on: 20 November 2003 by J.N.
quote:
My own feeling is that the olive kit was/is exceptionally fussy about setup.......when done right, it sounds sublime. Get it a bit wrong and you get what is often described as "the Naim Sound" ...dry, forward, harsh, often even crude. My suspicion is that the new kit is far mor tolerant of less careful setup, and thus is likely to sound better in a wider range of circumstances.


My feelings exactly, Laurie. I became disenchanted with and sold an 'olive' 52 and 250. which seemed to operate on a knife edge (more so with active 250's). It could be stunning on some tracks and sound like a bag of nails on others.

The new kit is more consistent across a range of music and recordings. Indifferent recordings still produce enjoyable music.

Mark - Glad you are chuffed with your 282.

Ken - I've just moved from a 202/HC to a 252/SC and it is delightful.

Enjoy. (at the risk of pinching your catch-phrase!)
Posted on: 21 November 2003 by Laurie Saunders
JN....the other side of that particular coin is is the limit on the ultimate level of performance attainble.

Equipment that is more tolerant of poorer setup is also likely to be ultimately more limited under optimum conditions. You cannot have one without the other, IMHO. My point is that olive kit CAN be set up correctly....it then won`t be on a "knife-edge" as you describe, simply superb

Laurie S
Posted on: 21 November 2003 by fled
quote:

The new kit is more consistent across a range of music and recordings. Indifferent recordings still produce enjoyable music.


I would agree but at what expense, if that leads to a more rounder / smoother sound typical of many Naim competitors then Naim may lose its market edge /position ?

What I mean to argue is that Naim has made itself an enviable reputation built around PRAT, dynamics etc not around a sound that sounds "nice" in all occasions. But one that always excites the listener and a sound that can be clearly identified as Naim.

I think the reference series is a fantastic piece of Hifi but there again so is Meridian, Chord etc
Naim now has to battle it out in the market place with all the other "nice" hifi systems. I hope the new direction becomes a success for Naim and everyone else but somehow I think joining the throng of high end manufactures without a clear defined individual sound (as with the olive series) may be an issue.

Or there again perhpas I am talking absolute bollacks because I had one to many down the pub Big Grin

Phil
Posted on: 22 November 2003 by Lightkeeper
mrbassman,

No, you don't love Naim sound. (Sorry Wink)

Ozren
Posted on: 22 November 2003 by Geoff P
It is interesting to see people referring to what they call the "naim sound". If you want to be precise right now the naim sound includes, the five series, the 5i and the new reference series, aswell as historic, chrome bumper and Olive!
Surely it depends where you enter the fray as to what you perceive as the naim sound?
Ozren states categorically for example that mrbassman who has new reference series does not love the Naim sound.
That's not correct mrbassman DOES love the naim sound, like myself. We both happen to love a different version of the naim sound from Ozren.

So are we drawing lines here? Should we be putting dates on when the true Naim sound started and finished? Should we banish certain pieces of naim equipment to limbo because they do not strictly qualify for the forum's official naim sound?

I think not

GEOFFP
Posted on: 23 November 2003 by Laurie Saunders
Geoff...whatever you call it hardly matters. What matters is if it is better or not ( a subjective issue) As usual, we must each make up our own mind. All I CAN say is that it`d better be pretty damn good (in my judgement) to make make me consider changing.

How does one quantify "better"? When I moved up the (olive) ladder the sound became better whilst paradoxically remianing the "same"

I.e the presentation was similar, though the "envelope" enlarged,

However, though yet to hear the new amps, I somehow don`t think they will move along the same path.I suspect that the presentation has been changed as well. Some report exactly the opposite.....that the latest range is the next logical step along the same road


I will have to judge for myself...

Laurie S
Posted on: 23 November 2003 by J.N.
Pampered Pooches

I think the bottom line here; is that we're lucky to have the choice, from a UK manufacturer of great Hi-Fi.

The new 'Reference' kit does have an easier to live with sound (?) and has possibly been driven by global market demands, to produce a slightly more 'mainstream' sound.

Twenty years ago; I would have probably preferred the 'olive/chrome bumper' sound and the older kit can sure still sound great with Naim's professional t.l.c.
Posted on: 24 November 2003 by Laurie Saunders
JN...you almost make me believe that Naim are a charitable organisation. Show your gratitude by sending a donation!

laurie S
Posted on: 25 November 2003 by ken c
JN:

Ken - I've just moved from a 202/HC to a 252/SC and it is delightful.

Enjoy. (at the risk of pinching your catch-phrase!)

still havent had time to do the audition. my expectations are high given all the glowing reports -- and also the fact that i quite like the way the nac112 sounds with a supercap. to me there is nothing at all "un-naim" about that particular sound.

i am sure pleased you are enjoying your 252 -- i am looking fwd top my demo, and to the upgrade, if i like the result, and IF "management" approves...


enjoy

ken