Plan 9 from Outer Space...
Posted by: seagull on 20 December 2002
The evening started well. The Quizmaster stopped off at the pub for a swift pint before picking me up. The Youngs AAA had just run out and the Scottish Soldier promised that this would be replaced by the RCH East Street Cream. We returned to the pub and lo, it was on! We downed a swift pint and filled a carrykeg to take with us back to darkest Surrey for the evening.
The aim of the evening was to try out the CD5 with one of the Quizmaster's Hi-Caps and comparing naked CD5 with CD5 plus Hi-Cap vs Naked CDX. The Quizmaster removed the CDX from the top of the Fraim and began to pull the leads about so that we could set up the CD5. He picked up the link plug for his 82 to discover it didn't fit! The plug was from a CD player not the pre-amp. We pulled the room apart but could not find the plug, so that idea was abandoned to be tried another day, probably back at mine as I'm the one with the real interest in what a hi-cap can do for a CD5 (it could be my next purchase if it is good).
On to Plan 9.
The Quizmaster's LP12 had just been serviced and was still in its box, the new Lingo 2 was unpacked and hidden in amongst the other PSUs before Mrs Malcolm could see it. This meant that the M*** turntable stand was free! So we thought "lets try comparing stands!" The three contenders were M***, Fraim and Sound Org. The Sound Org was fully loaded with The Quizmaster power supplies etc, the Fraim had the 82 and 180, the M*** was empty. We started with the Fraim.
We just drank some beer and listened to some music first. A mixture of old and new (sorry Nick, too busy drinking and listening to the music to make a play list, but we could have another PT convert) ranging from simple guitar and voice through Stairway to Heaven to The Chameleons wall of sound (did I ever say I like the Chameleons?). The Quizmaster's neighbours were going out and Mrs Malcolm was and First Born were both out so I had some fun watching the volume control on the 82 turn in response to the remote
. Various recording from different eras showed the difference between pure recorded music (e.g. Stairway to Heaven, which not the re mastered version, complete with tape hiss, it sounded very analogue!) to the more manufactured approach used by some (Peter Gabriel's UP, I like it, the Quizmaster didn't, he said it sounded very digital and processed, I could hear what he meant).
The Quizmaster and I were both a bit sceptic al about the effect stands can have on a CD player. The motion before the house was "Stands do not affect the sound"...
We moved the CD5 to the M***. The song was "Perfume Garden" off "What Does Anything Mean? Basically" by the Chameleons, all chiming guitars and full on attack. I pressed 'play' and went to sit down. Before I had even got back to the sofa the M*** Effect had kicked in, The Quizmaster and I looked at each other in amazement, the motion was defeated in a few short seconds. It was like the band had taken a step forward into the room, it gave a more 3 dimensional picture and re-enforces what Naim sistems already give you in terms of PR&T. The instruments were more separated and the singer was more up front. I could hear what people have said on the Forum about M*** and why some people like it. It was very 'in your face'.
We moved on to the Sound Org rack. This was lifeless and flat in comparison, the rack was fully loaded and not in the same league as the others.
We swiftly moved back to the Fraim. Same song, but it was like a different band was playing it. There was a warmth and fullness to the sound that was missing with the M***, for want of a better description, it was altogether more musical.
We repeated the process with other songs, including 'Stairway', the main differences seem to be with the vocals (especially female) and drums. It took a few different songs and much swapping of CD5 between the two stands to get used to the differences.
Eventually, Mrs Malcolm returned and kindly offered to give me a lift home, I think she wanted to make sure I left as it was getting late and we had settled in for the duration. The East Street Cream had gone down very nicely and was followed by various bottled beers, I took the train in to work this morning as a precaution
)
Conclusion
So which was best? Well, I'll sit on the fence and say that neither is better but the Fraim and M*** are very different in their presentation of music. The M*** was initially very impressive but after a few minutes gave a slightly fatiguing sound, I think you can have too much of a good thing. It was a bit like a real ale in tip top condition but with an overpowering hoppy flavour and bitter aftertaste.
I was astounded at how much the stand can actually affect the CD player, I always knew this was the case with vinyl. Once we had satisfied ourselves that stands DO indeed affect CD playback, the CD5 was returned to the Fraim for the rest of the evening, which I think tells you which we both preferred.
Next instalment?
The Quizmaster is keen to try his LP12 on the Fraim, so one day we will repeat the exercise with vinyl. Initial guess would be the opposite result on the basis that the M*** table was designed with the LP12 in mind and the Fraim was designed for use with Naim CD players, but we shall see.
The aim of the evening was to try out the CD5 with one of the Quizmaster's Hi-Caps and comparing naked CD5 with CD5 plus Hi-Cap vs Naked CDX. The Quizmaster removed the CDX from the top of the Fraim and began to pull the leads about so that we could set up the CD5. He picked up the link plug for his 82 to discover it didn't fit! The plug was from a CD player not the pre-amp. We pulled the room apart but could not find the plug, so that idea was abandoned to be tried another day, probably back at mine as I'm the one with the real interest in what a hi-cap can do for a CD5 (it could be my next purchase if it is good).
On to Plan 9.
The Quizmaster's LP12 had just been serviced and was still in its box, the new Lingo 2 was unpacked and hidden in amongst the other PSUs before Mrs Malcolm could see it. This meant that the M*** turntable stand was free! So we thought "lets try comparing stands!" The three contenders were M***, Fraim and Sound Org. The Sound Org was fully loaded with The Quizmaster power supplies etc, the Fraim had the 82 and 180, the M*** was empty. We started with the Fraim.
We just drank some beer and listened to some music first. A mixture of old and new (sorry Nick, too busy drinking and listening to the music to make a play list, but we could have another PT convert) ranging from simple guitar and voice through Stairway to Heaven to The Chameleons wall of sound (did I ever say I like the Chameleons?). The Quizmaster's neighbours were going out and Mrs Malcolm was and First Born were both out so I had some fun watching the volume control on the 82 turn in response to the remote
. Various recording from different eras showed the difference between pure recorded music (e.g. Stairway to Heaven, which not the re mastered version, complete with tape hiss, it sounded very analogue!) to the more manufactured approach used by some (Peter Gabriel's UP, I like it, the Quizmaster didn't, he said it sounded very digital and processed, I could hear what he meant).The Quizmaster and I were both a bit sceptic al about the effect stands can have on a CD player. The motion before the house was "Stands do not affect the sound"...
We moved the CD5 to the M***. The song was "Perfume Garden" off "What Does Anything Mean? Basically" by the Chameleons, all chiming guitars and full on attack. I pressed 'play' and went to sit down. Before I had even got back to the sofa the M*** Effect had kicked in, The Quizmaster and I looked at each other in amazement, the motion was defeated in a few short seconds. It was like the band had taken a step forward into the room, it gave a more 3 dimensional picture and re-enforces what Naim sistems already give you in terms of PR&T. The instruments were more separated and the singer was more up front. I could hear what people have said on the Forum about M*** and why some people like it. It was very 'in your face'.
We moved on to the Sound Org rack. This was lifeless and flat in comparison, the rack was fully loaded and not in the same league as the others.
We swiftly moved back to the Fraim. Same song, but it was like a different band was playing it. There was a warmth and fullness to the sound that was missing with the M***, for want of a better description, it was altogether more musical.
We repeated the process with other songs, including 'Stairway', the main differences seem to be with the vocals (especially female) and drums. It took a few different songs and much swapping of CD5 between the two stands to get used to the differences.
Eventually, Mrs Malcolm returned and kindly offered to give me a lift home, I think she wanted to make sure I left as it was getting late and we had settled in for the duration. The East Street Cream had gone down very nicely and was followed by various bottled beers, I took the train in to work this morning as a precaution
)Conclusion
So which was best? Well, I'll sit on the fence and say that neither is better but the Fraim and M*** are very different in their presentation of music. The M*** was initially very impressive but after a few minutes gave a slightly fatiguing sound, I think you can have too much of a good thing. It was a bit like a real ale in tip top condition but with an overpowering hoppy flavour and bitter aftertaste.
I was astounded at how much the stand can actually affect the CD player, I always knew this was the case with vinyl. Once we had satisfied ourselves that stands DO indeed affect CD playback, the CD5 was returned to the Fraim for the rest of the evening, which I think tells you which we both preferred.
Next instalment?
The Quizmaster is keen to try his LP12 on the Fraim, so one day we will repeat the exercise with vinyl. Initial guess would be the opposite result on the basis that the M*** table was designed with the LP12 in mind and the Fraim was designed for use with Naim CD players, but we shall see.
Following on from Seagull’s comments……….
The difference was dramatic, I realize that we should break stuff down, tweak etc and I APPLAUD THOSE WHO DONE THIS, it make it easier for the rest of us.
My reasons for trying the Linn on the Fraim are more domestic/aesthetic. It would suit me if I really liked the sound of the Linn on there. Then I could reduce my stand count by one and gain slightly more room. Over the Christmas period this is an experiment that I will undertake and report back what I/we find.
Perhaps the most telling aspect was when Mrs Malcolm came in and I asked her to listen to the difference the support made. She was very skeptical saying (perhaps like many) ‘I won’t here difference, my hearing isn’t good enough’.
For her not draw dropping (far too methodical a mind) just simply more musical, a nicer sound when the CD5 was on the Fraim. It is horses for courses, I prefer a warmer sound it seems (see the Aktiv review by Mike Lacey). Thus a CD player on a ‘forward stand’ M***, is probably just too much. Whereas the warmer Linn may need the M*** effect to add a dash of excitement. Just early thoughts but it will be fun to find out AND to try the CDX on the M***.
Thursday was a ‘hifi’ education in many ways as it helped me define the sound I really enjoy..
Mark I was posting this as I noticed your response,it was simply a Mana Reference ie 2 layers. My SBL's are on a single layer of Mana and I prefer this to the carpeted floor (plus thick underlay over block flooring on concrete). When the Linn is on the fraim I will try the lingo on and off the Mana, I'll drag Seagull around for his input.
Yes it was a very good evening and I now have to buy more CD's, a good sign.
The difference was dramatic, I realize that we should break stuff down, tweak etc and I APPLAUD THOSE WHO DONE THIS, it make it easier for the rest of us.
My reasons for trying the Linn on the Fraim are more domestic/aesthetic. It would suit me if I really liked the sound of the Linn on there. Then I could reduce my stand count by one and gain slightly more room. Over the Christmas period this is an experiment that I will undertake and report back what I/we find.
Perhaps the most telling aspect was when Mrs Malcolm came in and I asked her to listen to the difference the support made. She was very skeptical saying (perhaps like many) ‘I won’t here difference, my hearing isn’t good enough’.
For her not draw dropping (far too methodical a mind) just simply more musical, a nicer sound when the CD5 was on the Fraim. It is horses for courses, I prefer a warmer sound it seems (see the Aktiv review by Mike Lacey). Thus a CD player on a ‘forward stand’ M***, is probably just too much. Whereas the warmer Linn may need the M*** effect to add a dash of excitement. Just early thoughts but it will be fun to find out AND to try the CDX on the M***.
Thursday was a ‘hifi’ education in many ways as it helped me define the sound I really enjoy..
Mark I was posting this as I noticed your response,it was simply a Mana Reference ie 2 layers. My SBL's are on a single layer of Mana and I prefer this to the carpeted floor (plus thick underlay over block flooring on concrete). When the Linn is on the fraim I will try the lingo on and off the Mana, I'll drag Seagull around for his input.
Yes it was a very good evening and I now have to buy more CD's, a good sign.