Live Music - should a hifi aspire to it?

A couple of recordings that can be an apetizer for the real thing:

- Sue Foley:s recording of "One hundred dollar bill" on the album "Big city blues".

- Led Zep "I can't quit you baby" from the album "Coda". Recorded at a rehaersal for a live gig at Royal Albert Hall 1970.

Both will probably need something like DBL/3*500 to get the volume up to realistic levels!

Thank's for your positive comments on LS3/5A:s, Tony. I'm shure you just are trying to be nice!

JohanR

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I'm sorry, but I have to disagree strongly with you there, the last thing I want to hear is a "natural" drum kit for Rock...

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I like a drum kit to sound as a whole instrument – i.e. the cymbals, hi-hat, snare, bass and toms are all part of the same thing. My pet hate is the multi-close-mic’d kit sound that wrecked so many albums in the 80s – the only thing I hate more is heavy gates used on the snare. A kit should not sound like many different instruments positioned in different acoustic spaces and positioned randomly all over the soundstage. There are far to many albums that make the drummer sound like he is playing a bloody drum machine.

My choice for recording a kit was always a bass drum mic positioned in front of the kick drum, a mic accurately positioned between the snare and hi-hat, and two very high quality ambient mics positioned high either side in front the kit. In other words a very simple set up. The ambient mics do 90% of the work, the other two just give a little control over balance. This produces a very natural and cohesive sound.

My idea of a good drum sound is virtually anything by Can, Steve Albini, or Mogwai.

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Likewise, guitar cabs are frequently incredibly unbalanced with each other, as they are very much configured to the taste (how close do they like to stand, how deaf is the player) and wallet (how many cabs do they have) of the individual players - so if you have say Lead, Rhythm, and Bass, they each have wildly different effective volume levels.

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The art is in balance. The objective is IMHO to preserve the sound of the amp. Guitarists / bass players go to great trouble choosing their amps, so the least the recording engineer can do is to preserve the sound. Many crap engineers record amps dry, and add reverb etc later – this makes me want to punch them out. The whole point of buying say a Fender Twin is that it has a bloody great sound, and that obviously includes the spring reverb – if you want the classic Fender Twin sound you can not add a bit of digital reverb later.

If the band is recording live (i.e. all parts going down simultaneously) then the recording technique is similar to that of the kit, i.e. balance the close and ambient mics. It is not rocket science, it just takes a little care.

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Thank's for your positive comments on LS3/5A:s, Tony. I'm shure you just are trying to be nice!

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Not at all. I genuinely like the things, they are a great little infinite baffle speaker; what’s not to like? I would love to have a pair tucked away. I’m just not prepared to pay the absurd price the things go for these days, though I do carefully check every small speaker I see in junk shops etc!

My first hi-fi speakers were JR149s, the ones with the cylindrical metal cabinet that used the same drivers and crossover as the 3/5a (someone is selling a nice pair on Ebay at the moment if you want to see a picture).

Tony.

I think a few of you are missing the point of TC's original post. There has been over the past few years more than a few who have held live music to be the exemplar to which hi-fi should aspire to. To my mind this is a false idol at which to worship, far too many albums since 1965 have relied on technology and recording methods which can not be reproduced live, viz overdubs, splicing, backwards guitar solos, etc. Since the massive increase in sampling since the mid-90's the likelihood of Hi-fi aspiring to be "live" has become even less likely. Reproducing these studio effects live is called "backing tapes" or "miming" and generally frowned upon by the audience.

To me a live gig is a one-off irreproducible thing between the performers and the audience, revolving around singular, epheremal variations on the artists material as originally recorded, sonically subject to the whimsy of the venue/artist/engineer interface. Vinyl/CDs are a different thing - the version of the material that the performers committed to posterity after many hours of construction/rehersal, sonically subject to you and your gear. As has been pointed out by many posters, the first is often an emotional experience, the second a repeatable and mundane event. They each have their place and their place is not interchangeable even in the case of live CDs!

I would say that no, hi-fi should not aspire to live music, after all I prefer my apples to taste of apples!

Giles
o

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I would say that no, hi-fi should not aspire to live music, after all I prefer my apples to taste of apples!

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All a hi-fi should do is to accurately replay the recording. What a recording should do is a whole different kettle of haddock…

Tony.

I recently had the privilege of hearing the Heidelberg chamber orchestra in a small church in Brittany. I was one of about 50 people in the audience and I sat on the very front pew with the first violin directly in front of me, about 10 feet away. Immediately to his right was the second violin, two feet further round was the viola, a further couple of feet was the contre bass and Klaus Preis was at the clavicord in front of them, and slightly in front of me.
They played music by Mozart, Vivaldi, Pachelbel, Bach, Boccherini and Telemann of a quality and emotional intensity that was quite stunning. I felt fortunate not only to be in the presence of such gifted musicians but also to have the opportunity to hear live music as close up as I was and in such an intimate venue. Whilst listening I closed my eyes and have to say that I found it no easier to distinguish between first and second violins as I do when listening to my Naim IBLs. I was also surprised that the bass did not obviously go much deeper than my speakers do despite their reputation for retisence in bass. Another surprise was how easily the very gentle sound of the clavicord was to follow in the 'mix'. Other threads have alluded to the inability of hi fi to approach live music. I recently went to see Roger Waters in Manchester and on returning home put some R.W. CDs and vinyl on and felt my system was hopelessly puny in comparison. However my experience in France has shown me that a quality system (LP12, CD2, 32.5, Hicap, 250, IBL) is capable of astounding realism when sheer power output is not an issue.
At the end of the concert I had a chat to the musicians who said they are in England in September. I can't remember where, but its somewhere in the south. If they play in a small venue go and see them.

OTD Julie London