Nikon DSLR Dilemma
Posted by: rodwsmith on 28 July 2009
Advice gratefully received...
Background
On 3rd January I purchased a new Nikon D90 + lens kit, after having saved up for it and studied the reviews. I took advantage of the fact that I was working in the Caribbean, and I paid €990 there which was a lot less that it cost in France where I live. I asked whether it had a worldwide guarantee and was told that it did. I didn't however check this, and nor - obviously - can I prove the conversation happened.
Well, despite the great reviews, from day one, and in common with lots of other owners of this particular camera, my D90 didn't work very well (google D90 + 'err') to see just how many.
As often as not, it simply wouldn't let me take a picture. Usually, removing and reinserting the memory card, or the battery, or both, or wiggling the lens in the body, or some combination of all three would let me take a picture, but it would often unaccountably stop working again a few shots later. I don't consider these to be particularly acceptable in a camera costing €1000, but naively assumed maybe I was doing something wrong, and one day I'll get round actually to reading thoroughly the manual.
Then the screen failed. About five weeks ago.
All this in an expensive bit of kit less than six months old.
So I packaged it up and sent it off to Nikon France (probably a mistake in retrospect).
They have sent me an estimate to repair the camera - for €426. The warranty is only applicable in North America/Caribbean (apparently).
I'm no expert but I'd think that a camera that retails for €1000 probably costs rather a deal less than €426 to make from scratch when you factor in distribution, marketing and retailer/wholesaler and manufatcturer margins, so to pay this amount for a new screen (even the cheapest mobile phone these days sports a screen after all) and bracket to mount the lens (according to the internet the likely cause of the 'err' problem) seems excessive, even if the idea of paying anything didn't gall. Which it does.
I have 40 days to respond to this estimate before they return the camera to me unfixed.
Other factors; (1) I'm a bit broke and €426 is rather more than I can comfortably spend in the next 40 days (2) I was planning a trip in late August where I wanted to take some pictures, and (3) my French (both language and knowledge of the law) is probably not really good enough to have an argument with Nikon France, although I do love a good argument.
So what should I do?
Pay and put it down to experience. There are far worse things happening to other people after all. And I'm not being sanctimonious here, you only have to follow Mike's 'hard for you to read' thread.
Pay and try in some way to hound them until I can get it back (in practice I suspect in English, and via Japan).
Give up on it, chuck the camera, e-bay the lens, not throw good money after bad and save up for a Canon instead.
I certainly won't buy anything made by Nikon again in any case, and would warn anyone here likewise, and certainly away from this particular model as I am far from alone in experiencing these problems it seems.
Cheers
Rod
Posted on: 28 July 2009 by ryan_d
Sorry to hear about your woes Rod. I'd be inclined to send off a few emails to Nikon headquarters, and then get rid and go for the canon 40d or 50d (the updated model and equivalent to the D90 I think). Its a fabulous camera with great build quality.
WIth your situation, I really don't see you getting a satisfactory outcome as it will be too easy to give you the run around, and I've experienced your situation with other electrical items bought abroad.
SOrry to probably echo what you seem to be already thinking but you may have to chalk this one up to experience.
All the best anyway
Ryan
Posted on: 28 July 2009 by Derek Wright
Ship it to the service centre that handles the location where you bought it.
So it will cost a few bob in shipping but should be a lot cheaper than a Euro Nikon service centre.
Posted on: 28 July 2009 by Huwge
quote:
Originally posted by Derek Wright:
Ship it to the service centre that handles the location where you bought it.
So it will cost a few bob in shipping but should be a lot cheaper than a Euro Nikon service centre.
Not to dispute the advice as the logic seems fair, but I'd check first that you won't get stung for import / export duty if you do this.
Posted on: 28 July 2009 by Mat Cork
I've had Nikon's for years and never had a single peep of trouble...very unlucky mate, reliability is what you expect from them...maybe not with the D90 it seems.
If it was me, I'd insure it, then drop it. But I'm probably a very bad man.
With the cash, spill the extra and go for a D300 (bombproof). I like Nikon's so I'd stick with them, I'm sure Canon's are also great.
Posted on: 28 July 2009 by shoot6x7
Call the retailer where you bought it, find out where its warranty repairs are done (which Nikon centre) and then send it to them directly.
When they fix and mail it back to you make sure it's marked as 'gift' or 'item returned following repair'. You need to find out what the correct words are (from French Customs) so that you won't have to pay taxes.
I've been very lucky too D2H, D300, many lenses only one flash (fixed under warranty) and one lens has ever died on me ...
Don't assume that Canon will be any better than Nikon in these circumstances ...
The grey market is really hurting the country reps for these companies and they are very careful with foreign bought equipment. Nikon Canada will not touch, not even service, non-Canadian bought gear. Too many people buy cheaper grey market mail order cameras and lenses and then expect them to pay for a warranty repair.
The cost of the camera bought in that country includes money that goes to the distributor to cover warranty. If you bought it in France, Nikon Canada won't honour the warranty because they can't get any cash from Nikon France. It's just the way that Nikon has set up their world-wide distributors ...
Posted on: 28 July 2009 by rodwsmith
Thanks guys - really appreciated.
This will sour my feelings towards Nikon - obviously - (I also had a small compact Coolpix that went wrong) - but I have just got a dud, and that can happen to any manufacturer. I had been a lifelong fan until now. Although I do think this model has an inherent design flaw that Nikon should actively try to put right rather than doing it on a case by case basis. Or not, as the case may be.
I resent paying more than the (likely) cost of manufacture to replace one part only, to get back a camera that may still not work very well.
But 'shoot6x7', yours is the best suggestion and I will call the shop this afternoon for their advice.
The manufacturers are - at the very least - complicit in this whole grey market thing though. I would imagine that at any given point there are more cameras for sale in St Maarten than the entire native population. And of all the qualities a camera needs have, portability is amongst the most fundamental. I think they should repair them anywhere.
Cheers
Rod
Posted on: 29 July 2009 by Mick P
Rod
I had a similar experience a few years ago with a film camera. I paid about £400 for a Canon SLR in Tenerife.
The digital display broke down after a year and I had only put 4 reels of film through it.
The Tenerife dealer did not want to know, so I contacted Canon's sales HQ in the UK and after a conversation they agreed to repair the camera at no cost to me. They had previously quoted £180.
I would contact Nikons HQ in France and have a word with their sales dept. Just explain that their reputation is such that no camera will fail after a few months. You have nothing to lose.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 29 July 2009 by Derek Wright
If you are still in the wine trade in quite a public and influential position let that information drop into the conversation with Nikon France. You never know what might transpire. <g>
Posted on: 29 July 2009 by DAVOhorn
Dear All,
Great news!!!!
I am considering replacing my DSLR and the D90 is on my list of interest.
So that leaves the Canon equivalent and the Pentax equivalent the K 7.
So what to do now. They are similar prices and features.
So what to do????
regards David
Posted on: 29 July 2009 by rodwsmith
David
Seriously, having done plenty of research on this - stay away from the D90 Lens kit. If you want a D90 - and it has plenty of fans still - then go body only and buy a separate lens, which will avoid the 'err' issue.
I can accept that I have just been unlucky and that is not necessarily reason for anyone else to act on my experiences. But I won't buy another Nikon myself.
I wish you more luck than I have had. It did take some pretty good pictures when it was working...
Rod
Posted on: 29 July 2009 by Phil Cork
Rod,
Sorry to hear about your problems with Nikon. I've had a D200 for 3-4 years now and have had no problems with it whatsoever.
Nikon have a "Limited International Warranty" which should apply in your case. You can find the terms at the bottom of this page on their UK site:
http://www.europe-nikon.com/su...cal/broad/432/1.htmlI advised my Sister on a D80 kit for her Son while we were in NY a couple of years back. Several months afterwards his lens failed. Having called to confirm, I was able to send the camera + lens to Nikon UK in Kingston with a photocopy of the warranty (the last page in the thin paper warranty which should have accompanied your purchase) and of the receipt showing place and date of purchase.
They repaired the lens and sent it back at their expense.
Good luck,
Phil
Posted on: 29 July 2009 by FlyMe
Really sorry to hear about the problems you are having.
I bought a Nikon D90 and lens kit through Amazon UK a couple of months ago and I am really delighted with it. My first "real" camera and I am only just starting to get to grips with all the knobs and dials.
Hope you get the problem resolved quickly and cheaply!
Posted on: 29 July 2009 by Skip
No problems with the D90 at our house.
Posted on: 30 July 2009 by Rockingdoc
Nikon have been strict about this for decades, don't know if they still do the red vs. grey rubber trim thing, and it is often mentioned on photography websites. It is obviously to discourage grey importing, but I hope that you find a soloution.
Posted on: 30 July 2009 by Mat Cork
It's an interesting one this.
I think if you get stung by a brand you (reasonably) switch the alternate brand.
The danger with that is that, you may have just been unlucky, and move towards a less reliable mark.
I'm sure Nikon and Canon both make a great line of camera's (both have an army of loyal users)...if I was putting my oar in however (as a Nikon user), the thing that keeps me with Nikon is a)I know the way they work and like the feel and layout and b)the build quality is bombproof. I'm sure Canons (if you we're a long time user) would also feel nice in the hand and logical in their use...but I'm not sure the build quality of Canon (as great as it is) is quite up to Nikon levels. That's just my view, and it may be rooted in the past - I'm thinking a Nikon FM2 would be a lot more reliable and last a lot longer than a Canon A1. So I'd just consider if switching to Canon is going to help? As I've said though, Canon are great camera's, and you'd not be likely to be unlucky again.
Posted on: 04 August 2009 by rodwsmith
END RESULT - GOOD NEWS!
I just received a call from Nikon France, on my mobile (so not automated or an e-mail) to tell me that they are going to repair my camera for free and return it to me.
This must be as a result of the letter I sent to Japan (copying in Nikon France), and although I remain surprised that something so relatively expensive, from a company with the reputation that Nikon has, should go wrong so early in its life, this is a solution that I find more than satisfactory as it is the most I could ask for.
Legally I am sure that they could have stuck to their guns, but they told me that "Nikon ne veut pas perdre un client" and they now haven't
Good on them.
Thanks for everyone's advice earlier in the thread. Maybe I shall be able to get to put some pictures on the Nice Photos thread once again.
Cheers
Rod
Posted on: 04 August 2009 by 555
A thread that ends happily - hurrah!
Posted on: 04 August 2009 by northpole
Great news Rod - I have had years of reliable service from Nikon's film cameras (and lenses). Hopefully your faith will be adequately restored when you receive your camera back in full working order.
Peter
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by 555
Please do let us know when it's all worked out Rod.
I have my eye on a Nikon, but I'm a bit spooked now.
Posted on: 06 August 2009 by rodwsmith
Will do 555.
I posted the dilemma on a camera forum also and I think the consesus of opinion is to go for the body and a separate lens rather than the bundled kit as this is where most of the problems lie/lay.
And don't buy it on holiday!!
In the middle of all this I did try calling Nikon USA (pronounced Nye-cone, apparently). Their automated system would make anything BT, Virgin or Orange have ever thrown at us look slick.
After being told to press this for such-and-such, including instructions on what exactly 'press' means, and how to accomplish such an action, in a loop of Sartre-esque nightmare proportions, you finally get to a selection which seems as though it will inevitably lead to talking to a person (a choice, say, of "press 1 to talk to a person or press anything else, or do nothing, or hang-up not to") you press 1 and . . . .it is engaged.
This after being told in a twelve-minute long pre-amble message that "toll-free numbers are not available for callers from outside of the Ewe-knighted Staaaytes. Are you sure you want to continue? To continue, continue to hold, Otherwise you may hang-up. To hang-up replace the telephone etc etc..."
However it is probably worth buying a magazine as DSLRs seem to be getting better, better value, and more feature laden (although that's a mixed blessing in my book) with each passing month.
Good luck and thanks for the earlier support.
Rod
Posted on: 06 August 2009 by 555
Thanks very much Rod & Avole
I really like the characteristics/performance of Nikon cameras & lenses,
so my shopping quest is now back on track.
I think I'll use a UK retailer though!
Posted on: 06 August 2009 by Derek Wright
555 - If you do not have any Nikon lenses already - use your true freedom to select a going forward looking system.
The 4/3rds system - was designed from the start with digital SLRs in mind, not a conversion from cameras created for a different medium eg film and to accommodate a vast quantity of legacy lenses.
The 4/3rds system is typically lighter and physically smaller than the systems that have to accommodate legacy lenses.
So before you finally decide have a play with some of the Olympus DSLR bodies and lenses.
Posted on: 06 August 2009 by northpole
Derek
My own thoughts are that the 4/3 format will vanish with time as the 'full frame' sensor technology becomes more affordable and better packaged - one of my favourite cameras is an OM4Ti which is comparatively tiny next to my F5.
Following that logic, I would be very reluctant to advise anyone to purchase lenses which in the future may become redundant (for full frame).
Of course, I could well be proven wrong...
Peter
Posted on: 06 August 2009 by Derek Wright
but full frame may not be required for all - if sensor size is all then 2 1/4 square film cameras would not have been marginalised by 35mm to be used by the minority of users with very specialist needs.
AS digital sensors improve large area sensors will be redundant - how many non professional users really need huge pixel count sensors.
How many PnS 10 mgb cameras have the images printed greater than A4 size, the majority are not printed and of those that are printed they are printed at the 6 by 4 or 6 by 4.5 inch size.
If projection or use of TV displays are used to display images the pixel size of these devices is smaller than the current cameras.
I think that the 4/3rds system will last a long time.
Posted on: 06 August 2009 by shoot6x7
I agree with Peter (northpole). 4/3rds could easily become the film equivalent of APS.
Unless Canon or Nikon take it onboard it won't fly. Olympus and Panasonic won't be enough.
I also agree with Derek with respect to full-frame versus APS-C sensor sizes.
I shoot weddings and I'd compare it to medium-format film versus 35mm film. The qualty of MF is not in question, but it is a slower camera to use, 35mm is more nimble and you can get three times the number of shots on a roll.
IMO as a wedding shooter you don't need full-frame the file sizes are too big and that means more card space and disc space, more computer power, etc.
The only advantage I see is that a wide angle lens is a wide angle lens, you can crop more easily, high ISO performance is great and the noise is way better.
