Explain PRaT, please

Pace, Rhythm, and Timing,

OR

Pace, Rhythm, Accelleration, Timing.

Basically, the ability to follow the music in both speed and amplitude at all frequencies, without favoring one area over another. I'm sure this description could be embellished to death, but that is the "bare bones" explanation. Making music sound like music (what a concept).

Hmmm... then does "speed" equal the P, the R, or the T? And what does "amplitude" equate to?

A good place to start learning about this subject is Martin Colloms' Stereophile article Pace, Rhythm, and Dynamics.

quote:

---

My conclusion from many posts is that soundstaging precludes PRaT.

---

One characteristic is not related to the other. It's just that many systems and components that excell at soundstaging / imaging suck at reproducing the more fundamental qualities of music such as rhythm. Conversely, Naim equipment isn't known for the sort of holographic imaging so beloved by many audiophiles (but Naim gear isn't as bad at imaging as many US "imaging uber alles" components are at PRaT!). There's no inherent reason why proficiency in one area of music reproduction prohibits proficiency in another - it seems to be mostly a matter of the designer's choice of priorities.

A good place to start learning about this subject is Martin Colloms' Stereophile article Pace, Rhythm, and Dynamics.

Thanks Rob, a really good article. What surprised me from reading the subsequent letters is that it appears that in the USA rhythm was'nt mentioned in reviews before this. What saddens me in the present UK press is that it appears to be getting pushed into the background as it only seems to get mentioned when reviewing Naim, Linn or Rega gear.

Yours in Music

Syd

Yes...I've wondered for a long time about this.. When I played in a band I was called a prat, and now I know they meant I was good!!

Very helpful article, Rob- thanks.

230 people viewed this discussion but we have so few comments. Can it be that a lot of NAIM fans use the term PRaT but really don't understand it? NO, say it ain't so!!!

Then again, it's the music that matters

I just read those two discussions, and distinct definitions of pace, rhythm, and timing are missing and fluffy generalizations are all the talk. I'm a bit surprised, given how often the terms are thrown around, and the significant capital outlay on equipment to enjoy those qualities.

Rob's recommended reading shall be the one, then. (Don't mean to sound snobbish; I was looking for actual definitions)

Spot on Tom!!

Wifes been reading the forum today, I am no longer the maddest person in the world, a Hi-Cap is no problem and ive made good progress on talking her into an ARO!!!

Tom, I totally understand the reasoning behind the waffling. I've just been pulling my hair out a bit, trying to understand the terminology. Blame it on my damn engineering background. It often leads to seeking a depth of understanding really unneccesary when buying or enjoying something. I spent 18 months investigating framebuilding processes before buying my first custom bicycle. Co-workers, friends, and family all distanced themselves. I see a similar trend occuring now...

And still I've learned nothing

"Golf Girl"

(I cheated )

Ludwig,

With all due respect, you either get it or you don't. That's probably the reason few members have stepped up to try to explain the PRaT factor. The more you like music, the easier it is to understand.

Good British hi fi products are normally considered to have a high PRaT factor. They are certainly measured on this ability in the UK. They are also often (rightly or wrongly) considered to be somewhat monochromatic in nature.

American hi fi products on the other hand are admired for their huge soundstage and palette of colors, but rhythm and pace is not such a high priority.

Needless to say, skillful marketers know what sells in the target market and instruct their engineering department to "voice" and structure the products to produce the desired effects. They ship a lot of "red" ones to markets that prefer red, and other colors to other markets. There are folks in the UK that love big horsepower American hi fi products, and there are folks in America that prefer snappy British gear. Everybody has different preferences, and guess what, they are all correct becuase if it sounds good to you, it is good (point finale).

I guess explaining PRaT is like trying to explain what being in love feels like. We all wonder, but we all seem to know when it happens. In your case, do you love your system? Are you trying to understand the concept of PRaT, or looking to put together a system that has great PRaT? Be careful what you wish for, you might get it! Seriously though, once you hear a system with great PRaT, you might not like it so much (heresy to say on this forum I know, but not impossible). Follow your own star.

Oh, and another thing. Just because it is a Naim component or a Naim system is no guarantee of PRaT. A system is only as good as the guy that set it up. Contrary to popular belief, hi fi is NOT plug-and-play. A poorly set up system consisting of the best Naim has to offer can sound like crap. I've heard it many times and have been involved in putting things right again.

[This message was edited by undertone on TUESDAY 27 May 2003 at 07:16.]

I always thought PRaT was Pitch, Rhythm and Timing.

Cheers, Rob

Your slang is all mixed up Hyde -- prat originally meant buttocks hence "pratfall" is to fall on one's arse. Colloquially it means idiot or fool and is not remotely offensive.

Also nobody says "woman's front bottom" apart from maiden aunts and elderly schoolmistresses at 1950s convent schools.

Matthew

Hyde,

That would be 'berk'.

Paul

Back onto topic. I quite like what Tony Lonorgan has to say here

This is interesting, as it is suggesting that we all differ in our listening. My Naim dealer talks of boxiness and colouration, bass and stuff like that, where I generally hear realism. I find that as a system becomes better and the music more believably real, the structure of the sound disappears - for me anyway. If it sounds real, it wouldn't occur to me to analyse the sounds – I mean – you don’t listen to the sound of someone’s voice as you talk to them face to face do you!? Do you??.. I find that once you have reached a certain level these terms are less apparent. Is this then “transparency” . I dunno…I know that my criteria for a way a system sounds is way different from my Naim dealer, but he knows what I am listening for and is pretty good at providing it for me even so.
Do we all listen for different things then?