Jonothan King is a Brave & Honest Man !!!

In hindsight, I do understand Fritz's concern that this country is becoming more and more reactionary and sympathetic to vigilante actions in it's treatment of paedophiles and people taking up arms to protect their property, but on the other hand, isn't this because the law is so often unsatisfying? I think this Jonothan King case is a bad example because he was always an unlikeable slimy git anyway. I think a lot about this is because we never liked him anyway. We love it when the Royals drop themselves in it too. This wedding got better as we saw them get more stuffed.
This isn't about the charge, but about Jonothan King personality. Fritz; I think you may have a point, although I couldn't go as far as to call him a "brave & honest man", even though you only mean't that as a red flag.

I think the reactionary part is partly because some people see their lives as unsatisfying and when the media (bless em) print basically negative drivel (I feel) aimed at winding people up into a state of hysteria then chaos and further dissatisfaction is the result.

I also think that we as a nation like to have something to moan about, or worse still something to vent our anger at.

I suppose it's all about perception, but for me personally I'm getting a bit tired of negativity...

quote:

I'm getting a bit tired of negativity...

Look out!! we've got an election campaign to come

Regards
Clive

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
....and when I now look out of my window where I now sit and look at the beautiful high, decorated gas lamps (still in use) where many a soul previously hung for days, I think to mesen, "well, They we're all breaking the Law weren't they, so the bastards deserved to die".
My first comments refer to the GDR, my second ones to which you refer, and to which I now (Today) see, refer to the Democratically elected 3rd Reich.
Fritz Von The D in GDR stands for Democratic innit, but it's sder fukin law son yee cannie say our agains't it

Well I'm glad that you have it all sorted out and have decided, in that case, that it suits you best over there. Each to his own, eh Fritz?! Or is it just that you are a big hearted forgiving sort of a bloke ready to see the best in the worst at the drop of a hat, even the Nazi's eh?, just back the underdog; for they know not what they do, eh?! Oh well chaps, Tally-Ho, bandits at 3 O'clock.....

YAWN², "You're in Denial"



"No I'm Fuckin not"

When the Nazis started losing did that make them underdogs Fritz?

Nime

Having grown up in East London´and knowing far more Nazis there than I've ever met here in Germany, I really couldn't say old Son.

I wonder why this thread wasn't totally ignored as it maybe should have been done to show all of your wrath ?



Fritz Von Is Donnie Trump a Gangster ?

....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........

All this seeming competition as to who can be the most outraged I find rather sad and makes me think:

1) Chris Morris absolutely nailed it with the Brass Eye special "Paedogeddon".

2) A lot of you seem quite happy with the idea of violent, pre-mediated assault which is as disturbing in many way as someone wanting to get a blow job of a 15 year-old.

By contrast, an e-acquaintance managed to convey his view of King without simply describing the most drastic form of physical punishment he could imagine and with not a little amout of wit; in both senses of the word.

"I’ve been trying to avoid most of the Jonathan King farrago, mainly because the man’s so utterly fucking vile, and also because it means I’d have to risk seeing his face, which now resembles a genetic splicing between a burst couch and a ruptured arsehole, which went horribly, horribly wrong.

His self-delusion knows no bounds; I believe he’s hawking a record on the strength of this? Honestly, considering that most of the people who are sympathetic to his cause and might possibly want to buy it are a) locked up in the Beast Wing of Peterhead Prison, and b) have a slightly different view of what ‘popping into Virgin’ means from the rest of us, I wonder who he thinks his market is?"

Matthew

Excellent! A good kicking with words rather than boots?

This complaining about outrage is outrageous!

But I do think the fears of physical attack by forum members is overdone. Probably none of us would carry out our imagined threats. It is a sort of mind game we use to express our outrage that life in general isn't fair and that such arseholes do get away with a great deal that we mere mortals would not. We also fear for our own kids when in polls 1 in 4 reports attempted or successful abuse. While the law seems not to offer much protection.

That gullible and probably young record buyers actually funded this particular sicko's lifestyle also raises the inevitable doubts as to the validity of such moronic music lifting the talentless under-classes to the stately home level. Provided their offering is simply catchy enough. Anyone care to estimate what "Crocodile" has netted worldwide?

Meanwhile we "lesser beings" go on with our daily tasks for decade after decade. Unthanked and largely unloved by the media or society in general, whatever we do "for a living".

But three minutes in a studio and the "stars blaze forth" for a number of creeps we would not wish for as personal aquaintances at any price.

I would not confuse our venting with serious physical threat. Merely as a form of group discussion therapy. Fortunately nobody else reads the Naim forum. So it's not all that public.

Nime

Nime,

Fair point but even so I do take issue with the tone of some postings in this thread. Jonathan King indeed does seem to showing himself for the vile individual that he is but I don't think it reflects very well on this forum that posters here appear to be so willing for him to come on their door-step and 'bring it on'. Maybe I'm a bit desensitised to the impact he's had because I don't have kids and I'm sure as many of you here do I expect that some of the posts here I driven by a (quite natural) fear for your kids' welfare when someone like King is allowed to walk free from what seems like a completely inadequate prison sentence.

I think King's biggest vice, apart of course from the crimes for which he's been convicted, is his complete lack of contrition, and absolute belief that the only victim here is himself of some supposed miscarriage of justice.

In any case whatever his motivations and his circumstances, don't you guys allow him to make another difference here by falling out over it - Rasher and Berlin Fritz:- that one's for you.

Cheers,

Jon

"We also fear for our own kids when in polls 1 in 4 reports attempted or successful abuse"

And all those "polls" also consistently show that by far the most likely person to be doing the abuse is the child's father (or more accurately guardian) and not some repellent pop impressario.

Matthew

I wonder if Mr King would leave an old lady lying in the gutter and walk on by ? I think not somehow, though he might want a wee peek in her handbag possibly ?


Fritz Von Honesty is terrible thing

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
I wonder if Mr King would leave an old lady lying in the gutter and walk on by ? I think not somehow, though he might want a wee peek in her handbag possibly ?


Fritz Von Honesty is terrible thing

Listen, Fritz von Defending an Indefensible Paedophilic Twat, I imagine the scumbag would be too busy porking some poor little boy to bother helping an old lady - oh, and if he wasn't too busy blowing his own sordid little trumpet.

EW

Now I'm defending him am I ? Nice to know you've arranged yourself a more direct punchbag to air your blinkered views me old son, and that's not meant as an insult, just a pure observation.


Fritz Von Cos Real Tellytubbies always hug innit

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
Now I'm defending him am I ? Nice to know you've arranged yourself a more direct punchbag to air your blinkered views me old son, and that's not meant as an insult, just a pure observation.


Fritz Von Cos Real Tellytubbies always hug innit

Well you did initiate a thread called, "Jonothan King is a Brave & Honest Man !!!", and seem at every turn to try to make out he ain't that bad when he clearly is!

He is the sort of person for whom one's direst and most vitriolic opprobrium should be reserved.

By the way, I keep meaning to ask you, do you actually own any Naims?

EW

quote:

Originally posted by Earwicker:

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
Now I'm defending him am I ? Nice to know you've arranged yourself a more direct punchbag to air your blinkered views me old son, and that's not meant as an insult, just a pure observation.


Fritz Von Cos Real Tellytubbies always hug innit

Well you did initiate a thread called, "Jonothan King is a Brave & Honest Man !!!", and seem at every turn to try to make out he ain't that bad when he clearly is!

He is the sort of person for whom one's direst and most vitriolic opprobrium should be reserved.

By the way, I keep meaning to ask you, do you actually own any Naims?

EW

I thought he was deemed bad because he's served half of a sentence for being convicted of breaking the Law ? And No, et present I do not own any Naims as you put it, and I wonder reading between the lines why you ask, I fear you may have slipped up old Son, maybe you should post under your real Names !!!


Fritz Von I faught the law and the law won

P.S. 'Ginger' is Cockney slang for being Gay for those who don't know the fact, innit.

Fritz Von Rogers Ginger

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
I thought he was deemed bad because he's served half of a sentence for being convicted of breaking the Law ?

He's deemed bad for being an obnoxious child molester.

I just wondered why you post here so often, given that you don't seem remotely interested in music or hi-fi, that's all.

EW

quote:

Originally posted by matthewr:
"We also fear for our own kids when in polls 1 in 4 reports attempted or successful abuse"

And all those "polls" also consistently show that by far the most likely person to be doing the abuse is the child's father (or more accurately guardian) and not some repellent pop impressario.

Matthew

This is the problem. The media portray paedophiles as exclusively connected to underground networks who operate outside the margins of normal society. They're lurkers and you could probably spot most of them a mile off. There’s an element of truth in that but as usual they’ve fucked up the emphasis to fuel hysteria, sell papers and on one occasion that I can remember, get the shit kicked out of a regular citizen – which in turn causes more controversy and sells more fish n’ chip wrappers. The most common child abuser is the one sitting two feet away from them on the sofa, watching the telly, in a seemingly (to the casual observer) happy and normal domestic situation. This is too frightening for most of us to engage and far too close to reality to deal with. NSPCC, therapists and support centres quote abuse figures of around 1 in 4 for girls and 1 in 5 for boys. I wouldn’t be surprised if these figures were on the conservative side. So where’s all that abuse coming from?

JonR

You are totally correct - you don't have kids. I have two young girls and would not think twice of defending their safety in whatever way I saw fit at the time.

Recent times have demonstrated that these monsters who prey on the young and vulnerable have no place in society.

Think back to your thoughts on Soham for a few minutes and reflect.

We moved into our new house 15 months ago and my, then 9yo, daughter asked me if it was a nice safe area and she could play out in the streets on her bike.

Maybe you should have children........

quote:

Originally posted by Earwicker:

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
I thought he was deemed bad because he's served half of a sentence for being convicted of breaking the Law ?

He's deemed bad for being an obnoxious child molester.

I just wondered why you post here so often, given that you don't seem remotely interested in music or hi-fi, that's all.

EW

Thanks for the interest, I am very interested in and love music passionately, but don't choose to discuss it on here and the music thread either. I'm very intereszted in how said music is reproduced also, and always have been, but still do not choose to discuss it within this Padded Cell, a subject covered often here, as well as the good old 'you're not a Parent' argument so you don't understand like we do. The points put on regarding Child abuse in UK are excellent though unfotunately not new, What is new (in serious circles) is that it's getting more openly discussed and understood. I recall mentioning that m,y mOther worked for many years looking after thousands of abused little girls, as do many other brilliant Social workers tec in UK, strangely enough they are rarely listened to, except near Election times as per usual, innit.


Fritz Von KIds are brilliant, especially when they've got other homes to go to, innit

quote:

Originally posted by long-time-dead:
JonR

You are totally correct - you don't have kids. I have two young girls and would not think twice of defending their safety in whatever way I saw fit at the time.

Recent times have demonstrated that these monsters who prey on the young and vulnerable have no place in society.

Think back to your thoughts on Soham for a few minutes and reflect.

We moved into our new house 15 months ago and my, then 9yo, daughter asked me if it was a nice safe area and she could play out in the streets on her bike.

Maybe you should have children........

L-T-D,

So basically what you're saying, if I read your post correctly, is that because I don't have kids my views are therefore irrelevant?

Look, there's nothing wrong with your viewpoint; on the contrary it's indeed a very 'right', dare I say it righteous point of view. Nor do I think that Fritz genuinely believes that King is a "Brave & Honest Man" as per the title of this thread. I would venture to suggest that the thread title was designed to make us think rather more than we would otherwise like to about this man, and others like him.

After all, if they "have no place in society" as you suggest, what do you do with them? Shoot them? Exile them to some far off Pacific Island? They are still human beings after all; unpalatible though that fact may be in light of what they have done, it is nevertheless a fact. However it's far easier to condemn them outright and not have to think about them any more except hope someone else makes sure these people f**k off to the depths of hell, never to return.

It's far more difficult to actually think about what should be done. Now, I don't pretend I have anything like an answer to this question. I admit instead to being one of those who'd prefer not to think about it and hope someone else is dealing with it.

As to whether I "should have children", in the event that I should one day find myself in a loving and mutually satisfying relationship of my own, I would hope that my partner and myself have children purely because we chose together to do so, and not because of any moral compunction to do so or any other outside influences.

Regards,

Jon

quote:

Originally posted by long-time-dead:
JonR

You are totally correct - you don't have kids. I have two young girls and would not think twice of defending their safety in whatever way I saw fit at the time.....

....Maybe you should have children........

I would hope that none of us would think twice before defending the safety of any children under any circumstances. Are you seriously suggesting that Jon wouldn't? Couldn't agree more strongly with your sentiment but the angle you're coming from holds about as much water as a BMW driver hogging the outside lane.

I thought your point was well put Jon - FWIW.

Cheers

Harry

"We moved into our new house 15 months ago and my, then 9yo, daughter asked me if it was a nice safe area and she could play out in the streets on her bike"

She is something like a million times more likely to be hit by a car. Hell she's probably in more danger than from lightning strikes than paedophile abduction.

"Think back to your thoughts on Soham for a few minutes and reflect"

Soham looms large mainly becuase of an iconic photograph of two attractive, blond white girls from a (broadly) middle class area. Same effect with Milly Dowler and Sarah Payne -- their prominence is mainly a media effect. At the same time as Soham a couple of young black girls from a council estate in inner city Birmingham were adbucted and murdered and it barely made the news.

(which is not to belittle teh Soham murder in any way but to make the point that a sense of perspective is needed).

One final note. Jonathon King is not really a paedophile it the sense that he had seemingly consensual sex with sexually mature young men rather than children. For sure the relationships were grossly abusive and King is seemingly a deeply unpleasant person with no remorse of insight into his own behaviour and i feel little sympathy for him but it is not really true to say he is a paedophile and thre are aspects of this case that are legally problematic IME. There is a marked distinction between King and Gary Glitter and then even more so to Ian Huntly.

And I am still waiting for someone to explain how King's offences are any different to Mandy Smith and Bill Wyman?

Matthew