U.S. government and BAe Systems bosses.

Tony

Which US arms deals are currently under suspicion as the BAE al-Yamamah deal is (oops was until it was brushed under the carpet)?

As part of that deal money changed hands through a US bank so the US judicial system is perfectly within it's rights to investigate.

Not sure where pot - kettle - black comes into it.

Jim

I'm sorry, but any arms deals done out there will involve at least a certain amount of buttering up.
Of course, it seems like the US military are cleaner than most, as evidenced by their choice of Airbus for the new USAF tanker fleet. They realised they were being fleeced left, right and centre by Boeing.

Tony

It is a somewhat interesting case, but from what friends who have worked in the area have said it seems like BAE were doing little more than following local custom. The sort of figures that have been bandied about by the media do not sound excessive to them for a deal that size, and they are in little doubt that a company that did not engage with these practices would not be able to do business in Saudi. It's a difference of culture. It easy for us to condemn, but over here it is not unusual to be bought meals, given gift bags, sent wine or hampers at Christmas etc. by vendors. I have more USB Flash Drives with various company logos on them than I know what to do with! It's only the value of gifts that is different, it is us in the West that have a bizarre notion that a few £100 worth of hospitality and gifts are acceptable, but anything more is bribery. We're the ones suffering from moral confusion!!!

This type of economic crime appears to be a growing & significant problem in the U.K.

quote:

Originally posted by djftw:
I have more USB Flash Drives with various company logos on them than I know what to do with!

I'll take a few off you if you don't want em!

There is a big difference between a few USB flash drives and a few million dollars in ahem..."local custom" payments.

I worked for 12 years for a large US technology organization and some of our biggest customers were the US military and security services and (by extension) foreign governments.

Every employee in the company (well over 44,000) had to take and pass an ethics course every year. The course covered items like making payments "disguised" as local customs and covered in depth the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA). This was drilled into everyone. The size of contracts we were dealing with often had B's after them rather than M's but no excuses for breaching the rules were allowed.

That said, I'm not naive enough to believe that deals done at Government level are played out using a different set of rules....

Jim

The company I worked for had a rigorous non receipt of gifts and hospitality rule for employees

quote:

rule for employees

Exactly.

Tony

Seems like most people here obviously don't want to do business in the Middle East.

Most business have rules that forbid bribery etc etc.

Same companies have "specialists" who "specialise" in securing contracts. This enables the rest to concentrate on their strengths eg technology and to comply with the company anti-corruption rules.

Cheers

Don

Don

Glad to see you are an expert on Middle East commerce as well. FWIW, we did a significant amount of business in the Middle East. As an officer of the company I had a little bit of insight into the inner workings...no fixers.

Cheers

Jim

quote:

Glad to see you are an expert on Middle East commerce as well.

Lived and worked in the Emirates (Trucial States in those days) and Oman. All between 1968 and 1973. Basically using the kit we had sold them.

Subsequently spent some time back in the Emirates and Oman and also in Kuwait, Jordan, Pakistan and Saudi (Al Yamamh and also working with a company from Barrow).

I am merely speaking from experience. Obviously different experiences to your goodself, but reality, none-the-less.

Cheers

Don