Soundbase setting up advice needed

quote:

---

Is this the general character of soundbases?

---

No. They do need to be set up properly though, and for me this included a lot of sighs and AAAAAAARGGHHH!s

Get the spikes pointing to the floor so that all four are touching without any rocking. Then get the four upward spikes so that the board upon them is level. The Mana Spirit Level is really good for this.

Now the hard AAAAAARGGHH! bit: Get the four upward spikes to touch the board so that it doesn't rock upon them.

At all.

This requires the teeniest, tiniest movements of the nuts under the metal frame supporting them with the spanner provided. This should keep you busy for about an hour or so with your blood pressure steadily rising.

Now ensure that the spikes under your speakers are all touching the board without any rocking.

And same again for the other speaker [I bet you wish you had a mono system at this point]

Now you should hear more detail, tighter bass, and the soundstage should be bigger.

quote:

---

Have I got them set up wrong again?

---

I think you must have.



Regards,

Steve.

Rasher,
I use SBL's on mana onto a concrete floor. If your floor is wood then the trouble you are having is understandable. This is because the weight of the SBL when placed on the Mana could well upset the balance etc.
What I did was as per the comments above posted by steven, but it did involve lifting the SBL's off and back on a couple of times to make sure of levels etc. The other thing you are now allowed to do is have the spikes on the SBL lower than before, and this made a differance to the sound IMO. You do need the top part of the mana to 'ring' rather than rattle, indicating you have the top spikes set up and touching the mdf correctly.
Initially on a wooden floor at my previous house I observed (heard) similar results, but after a while found the sound 'cleaner' and more detailed as a result of the bass being more controlled.
I was happy with this, but you may not be...

Thanks guys. Oh dear...

Trouble is that the carpet is very thick, and I have to press hard on the frame to get it thorugh the carpet to get a reading from the spirit level, so the setting up from that point is difficult, 'cos it bounces back up again - I need the weight of the speaker on it from the start. Should I resort to cross head screws?
It is worth the effort?
Yes Andy, it is a timber suspended floor.

Rasher,
i agree with dozy re use of crossheads and mana. Where are you? are you local?
If you need verbal help....
Other than that its about patience - but I felt it worth it with the SBL's as I thought mine were underperforming on the wooden floor.
If you don't want to go that route have you tried marble slabs?
There are quite a few threads on this topic and most people seem pleased with the results...

I'm in Brighton Andy..so no.
I am going to give it a few days, get the SBL's off and see if the Mana has made its impression enough to stop lifting. It is a new carpet and I'll get shot if I start cutting it. I've already had it up once for spurs (when the missus was away on holiday - she still doesn't know!!) In the meantime I will have a look at the marble slab threads.
Its the whole thing of moving the SBL's too - they are not too easy assembled are they!! I'm terrified of upsetting the seals.
Thanks guys - I appreciate your help.

Rasher,
i know exactly what you mean about the seals - I got really good at smearing fairy liquid and aiming sealant, If you know what I mean.
Seriously though my 1st choice would be to persevere with the Mana...

I'm not about to give up just yet. I know this has potential, so will give it a fair trial. Do you think the soundbases would work on marble slabs?
I can feel the stanley knife coming out - surely a very tiny cut can't do any harm?
I can't believe how tricky they are! How can you get SBL's close to the back wall AND adjust the rear spikes?!!

Rasher,
Once you have the Sound Bases set up correctly, they will sound harsh for a few days. Mine did, anyway. I never got anything that I'd call a note from the board, but I set the last screw to halfway between the points at which I heard rattling.
Getting the spikes thru carpet is surprisingly difficult. I made a hole with a small nail, enlarged it with a larger nail, then I used a succession of Philips-head screwdrivers to get gaping holes which still close up quickly (with no damage to the carpet) if you don't get the spikes thru in a hurry. It's tedious, but it's worth the effort.

Whatcha doin man, there a piece of pee to setup.

Setup correctly, the bass starts DEEP, then tightens up nicely, midrange develop greater definition (vocalist, backing singer, instrument seperation), but most of the PRaT increases, but has a strange ease to it. Oh and the soundstage just keeps streching further into the room (cool)

Now i know the type of music you like, and believe me naim/mana are the only combo for this music, they way this combo drives ahead through some very complex basslines, without getting flustered is frightening, and without a loss of detail (mainly bass bloom)

Anyway rant over - i won't say your setup is wrong, maybe you just don't like the effect, but your findings are the opposite as to what you should be experiencing, your not mounting the spikes on cross-heads screws are you ???

In terms of impact, the effect is immediate, over 3-5 days bass tighten's up, in some instances a slight harshness (if any) diasppates
I've lived with this combo for ~3years, and currently have my SBLs @ Phase 6, each phase has been better than any box upgrade, but then i suppose the GIGO principle applies

naheed. . .

Right...that's it.
The missus is out tonight so I'm going to cut the carpet. If that fails, it's ply or marble.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rasher:
My SBL's have lived on the carpet for ages, with some Mana Soundbases (MDF) sitting looking at me waiting for me to set up properly. I have played with them, but always seem to remove them as I am never satisfied that I've got it perfect - so tonight I spent a whole evening determined to get them in properly once and for all.
First thing that strikes me is the brightness of the sound and the loss of warmth that's always been there before. There is another octave of bass, but no increase in "bassiness" of the overall sound. I feel the soundstage has compressed slightly too, and CD's that probably are not the best recordings have become a bit worse.
What I need to know is:
Is this the general character of soundbases?
Have I got them set up wrong again?
Will they get better if I leave them a while?
Is it worth the agro?
Sigh...
I have used Mana instructions to the letter, and I was very precise.

---

I had Mana bases and in my room they did exactly what you described. They won't get better I suggest you get rid of them. They should only be used in a situation where bass boom/control is a problem.

Hi Rasher,

IME you do lose "warmth", but I think the trade-off is worth it. Dev doesn't -- it's a suck-it-and-see-type thing, but what you describe doesn't all sound wrong to me.

It will be easy to get all four SBL spikes touching the board without any rocking, but you should try to ensure that the weight is distributed evenly (as with the Mana itself). When you get there, you will notice that you can almost slide the speaker around on the board as if on ice. Feels pretty cool.

Thomas

I have also had problems with recently acquired soundbase set up. The floorboards are old and probably a little soft- so the weight of the SBLs forces the bottom spikes down into the floor over a couple of days, distorting the metal frame and messing the top spike adjustment.

I did achieve the 'ice skating' effect though.

I started with a soundbase on the work bench, set to make the top board level. I then put the SBL bottom box upside-down on the Mana board and then adjusted the SBL spikes using a sheet of Mana glass and a spirit level. The usual adjusting to get the glass ringing evenly, then just tightened the lock nuts.

Jo

is very educational, here we realize that even the expensive things are not for anybody’s liking. (I’m interested in improving my SBLs but I don’t think the Soundbase will be the first I’ll buy and try.)

What more interesting is, however, is JRHardee’s comment:

“Once you have the Sound Bases set up correctly, they will sound harsh for a few days.” I’ve had some similar experiences with my Fraim-type stands. Can we say this mechanic things should have their running-in time, I wonder.

graphoman

Last night I looked at the speakers and couldn't face doing it all over again - so I fiddled without taking it apart. I found that after a day, it had settled slightly and pushing the front of the SBL revealed a slight knock from somewhere. I tweaked a bottom spike here and there and then a top spike, and then a SBL spike. I now have a solid knock and ring when gently clouting the front of the SBL bass box. Sounds solid. I got the skating effect too.
The result is much, much better. The soundstage has become wider again, and the bass extension is still there. I am not too pleased with the still bright treble, which is akin to my old steel & glass equipment rack, which has a tendency to mess up and harshen things when it gets noisy, like snare drums for instance, which now sound as if coming from the kitchen radio. CD's that I thought sounded like good recordings now don't. Great recordings sound fabulous.
I need to give it more time, but am not sure if I can live with the messy treble, but I may miss the bass extension.
Maybe I shouldn't have started this, as there is unlikely to now be a totally satisfactory outcome either way.
My mullet system may be shown to be the problem here, the CD3.5 showing it's limitations. But the treble was great before!!

I should add that my listening is less enjoyable as I am tending to listen to the individual instruments, especially bass, rather than the whole. Maybe I'll stop doing this when the novelty has worn off.
I am astonished at the huge effect of such a simple thing as what the speakers are on. It is of the magnitude of changing boxes.

Rasher,
I had a 3.5 and it sounds as if you have the same sound as I had. I resorted to cable changes (I know - drastic)
That was a while ago and I now have a CDX2, and the treble has calmed down and soundstage opened up. (I believe now it was due to harsh treble re the 3.5)
I was in an experimental mood and so took my soundbases away, and that lasted about 10 seconds before I put em back again.
Try living with them a while, then take em out - then see if you prefer it with them not there after being in place a while...
regards
andy c!

I've now ordered some 40mm thickness polished slate slabs. Let's see what that does!

Rasher,
Sheesh! best get to the gym - they will be heavy lol.
Seriously though I'd be interested to see (hear) how you get on. What are the other dimensions (wight x depth)?

cheers,
andy c

I got Soundbases in a couple of years ago, but they didn't seem to make much difference with an 82. SO I plonked the SBLs back on the floor and quietly forgot about them.

Last year I bought a 52 (just before the 252 launch, hmph) and on a tweaky Sunday put the Soundbases back. Result!

So it does depend a bit on what's upstream...

Tim

I'm trying to keep it all neat, so I've got them 300x330mm. Don't know whether to just plonk them on the carpet or raise them on crosshead screws on 6mm ball bearings.
Probably need Tom to comment on this. The slabs will be polished and are going to cost about £65. If it don't work, I've got some tombstones for the cats!

I know JW doesn't like to be quoted* but he did say to me when I purchased my own Sound Bases direct from him that they work better without any kind of slab between them and the carpet beneath.

The logic does make sense; you've still got a spongy layer of carpet for your speakers and Sound Bases to writhe about upon. It would therefore be better to have spikes passing directly though the carpet to the floor beneath.

I have a pair of slates kindly given to me by Marco and one day I may bother to experiment with them between the Sound Bases and the carpet just to test out JW's hypothesis, but given the AAAARRRGGGGHH! factor of setting up the Sound Bases again, it may well wait until I've moved house.

* I'd rather quote JW than pass on his experience as my own findings when I haven't yet even bothered to find out for myself.



Regards,

Steve.

Hi Rasher,

I'm in Brighton & have my Credo's sat on 3x sound bases with good results -you're welcome to come have a listen/discuss set up if u like.

Re spikes through carpet, I'm afraid cutting is the only way to go. I used a bradle for mine which doesn't have any lasting damage as it just parts the weave.

Cheers Pearcy. - might just do that. My slate slabs are coming this week, but after two weeks, the Mana Soundbases have really settled in and the mid-treble has cleaned up nicely. I am at the stage when I am sure it is generally much better than without. So the slate slabs will turn up and I will have to take it all apart!
Keeps me fiddling I guess.

Rasher, Pearcy set mine up, and they were grin inducingly good from the word go.

thanks again .