Soundbase setting up advice needed
Posted by: Rasher on 28 September 2003
My SBL's have lived on the carpet for ages, with some Mana Soundbases (MDF) sitting looking at me waiting for me to set up properly. I have played with them, but always seem to remove them as I am never satisfied that I've got it perfect - so tonight I spent a whole evening determined to get them in properly once and for all.
First thing that strikes me is the brightness of the sound and the loss of warmth that's always been there before. There is another octave of bass, but no increase in "bassiness" of the overall sound. I feel the soundstage has compressed slightly too, and CD's that probably are not the best recordings have become a bit worse.
What I need to know is:
Is this the general character of soundbases?
Have I got them set up wrong again?
Will they get better if I leave them a while?
Is it worth the agro?
Sigh...
I have used Mana instructions to the letter, and I was very precise.
First thing that strikes me is the brightness of the sound and the loss of warmth that's always been there before. There is another octave of bass, but no increase in "bassiness" of the overall sound. I feel the soundstage has compressed slightly too, and CD's that probably are not the best recordings have become a bit worse.
What I need to know is:
Is this the general character of soundbases?
Have I got them set up wrong again?
Will they get better if I leave them a while?
Is it worth the agro?
Sigh...
I have used Mana instructions to the letter, and I was very precise.
Gave it a very quick blast this morning and the lightness and ghostly character is still there. Hard to describe, but its like morning mist. All the detail is there and the soundstage is nicely away from me, but it just sounds really floaty - much more height I guess. All light and whispy. Imaging is better than ever before, but the soundstage is not as wide as slabs only. I will be interested to give it a fair trial tonight, but I think this is pretty good.
One thing is certain now at least - slate slabs with/without soundbase is hugely better than straight onto the floor. The difference is in the realms of upgrading the preamp a league. All for not very much money.
Have to say also that the change of the position of the nuts to the top spikes makes much more difference than it should. I am not really a believer in tweaks as such, so this is beginning to make me feel like a nerd. I had better watch out before I come home with an anorak
Jo - if you made the same mistake with the nuts, what effects did you notice?? & thanks for the pointer.
One thing is certain now at least - slate slabs with/without soundbase is hugely better than straight onto the floor. The difference is in the realms of upgrading the preamp a league. All for not very much money.
Have to say also that the change of the position of the nuts to the top spikes makes much more difference than it should. I am not really a believer in tweaks as such, so this is beginning to make me feel like a nerd. I had better watch out before I come home with an anorak
Jo - if you made the same mistake with the nuts, what effects did you notice?? & thanks for the pointer.
Rod - I was actually satisfied with the sound and general performance from the SBL's before I started all this, but with all the talk of SoundBases beneath SBL's in particular, I just couldn't help myself. The trouble with the thickness of the carpet and my reluctance to cut it led from one thing to another, and before you know it......I should have just ended it there and then!! I really don't know about the crosshead screw thing as I haven't tried the slabs sitting on the carpet, but my expectation would be that a more solid bass would emerge with the slight compression of the soundstage and a bit of treble sparkle loss - but I'm guessing!!
What I've learned more than anything is that SoundBases are fantastic.
John - Bizarre is right!! I can make no sense of it. How can the position of a single set of nuts change the sound so drastically??
I wouldn't have believed it if I had read it here and not heard it myself.
What I've learned more than anything is that SoundBases are fantastic.
John - Bizarre is right!! I can make no sense of it. How can the position of a single set of nuts change the sound so drastically??
I wouldn't have believed it if I had read it here and not heard it myself.Rod - Bugger off 
I know I should have tried MDF first, so I just might, but I think the slates are OK and I'm afraid of what I might find. Interesting note re Davey at Mana, but I fail to see how the soundbase can know if its on a slate slab or concrete floor. Surely they work on concrete floors too? I'm sure Mana would say that they work on any floor surface if you asked them! I also have my own opinion regarding what is "correct" and what I actually like. If the floaty effect is still there when I get home, I think I may become hooked on what I have.
I know I should have tried MDF first, so I just might, but I think the slates are OK and I'm afraid of what I might find. Interesting note re Davey at Mana, but I fail to see how the soundbase can know if its on a slate slab or concrete floor. Surely they work on concrete floors too? I'm sure Mana would say that they work on any floor surface if you asked them! I also have my own opinion regarding what is "correct" and what I actually like. If the floaty effect is still there when I get home, I think I may become hooked on what I have.
John - The slates work well regarding tuning of the soundbases, and I reckon I have them pretty well perfect in spite of them not digging in - although the surface of the slate isn't as hard as marble and they do scratch and make ever so tiny dimples, so they are bedding in to a degree.
I'm not about to sell them yet - I have another system with a concrete floor coming - my office building is being built and the first floor goes on this week (my office). I have opted for a suspended concrete floor - so in the new year, we do it all again!
I will try MDF this weekend OK?
I'm not about to sell them yet - I have another system with a concrete floor coming - my office building is being built and the first floor goes on this week (my office). I have opted for a suspended concrete floor - so in the new year, we do it all again!
I will try MDF this weekend OK?
quote:
Originally posted by J. A. Toon:
If you mean that the sound has been dynamically freed from the speakers, thus making the sound far less boxy and instead so it "hangs in free space", then that is precisely what Mana does!
Yeah, that's exactly it, and the sonic character of the slate seems to work for me - whatever its doing. I wouldn't recognise it as I have never heard Mana before. It's good.
"I think that you just like to make life difficult for yourself, really"
Erm...yeah. Probably right there.
I also wonder about the effect of the speakers being higher and higher the more we bung underneath them. The listening height must have an influence.
I'm off to get a whisky and fire it up (the hifi not the joi...er...the um the ..).
heh heh -lol, the 1st time I tried a mana amp rack I didn't like it & sold it immediately. Sold it to a friend, set it up round his place & it made a big improvement to his system -was very confused.
Took me a little while to figure out that when I had tried it in my system I had placed it on a sound stage which had the top nuts underneath the frame instead of on top! e.g. the wrong way round, as rasher had set his up -when I next tried an amp rack, things were miles better
The way I would describe the sound with the nuts the wrong way round was -more detailed, yes -but a bit thin & a little bright. I wonder how many people have made the same mistake when demoing mana...
Took me a little while to figure out that when I had tried it in my system I had placed it on a sound stage which had the top nuts underneath the frame instead of on top! e.g. the wrong way round, as rasher had set his up -when I next tried an amp rack, things were miles better
The way I would describe the sound with the nuts the wrong way round was -more detailed, yes -but a bit thin & a little bright. I wonder how many people have made the same mistake when demoing mana...
Yeah -I'm always open to discussing the nerdy aspects of support set up
Let me know a suitable time & I'll see if I can make it...
pearcy93@hotmail.com
Let me know a suitable time & I'll see if I can make it...
pearcy93@hotmail.com
Rod – Pearcy came around last night, Mekon had to cancel due to a work crisis – but Pearcy in expert Mana mode did the business.
I was actually quite pleased that he thought the system as it stood to be sounding pretty good, which is kind of what I thought too. He was surprised at how much bass I was getting and said he hadn’t heard SBL’s doing it this good before, which was encouraging. So, there were no obvious disasters to attend to – but I had my 18mm 330x300mm MDF boards cut, sanded and sprayed matt black ready to go, as yet untried – so we had to have a play.
First thing we did was give it a good listen as it stood, then took out the Soundbases and sat the SBL’s onto the slate slabs.
Interesting as I haven’t heard this for a while now, and the soundstage collapsed in height, the bass was still good although not as extended, and the general width was still pretty good. So not as good as with the soundbases, but pretty OK really – not a disaster. I was almost happy to just put the soundbases back, but Pearcy insists on trying the MDF, so we stuck the MDF under the SBL’s without the Mana. Initially I thought it was an improvement, but after about a minute I changed my mind. I don’t think Pearcy thought it as bad as me, but the bass was warm and woolly, undefined and – well – woolly. The treble became warmer and any hardness here disappeared, but I then thought maybe that the high treble was just rolled off!! Not too good. We then put the Mana on the MDF.
The soundstage collapsed again and the soundstage was placed between the speakers with no projection sideways or in height. I think it was awful. Pearcy picked up on the treble becoming spitty at some stage and I can’t remember which configuration this got worse or when it got better – so maybe he can put a post here and clear that up. I think by this point it was an improvement in the treble, but I had made my mind up pretty early with this configuration that the slates had to go back in.
Pearcy was good enough to go through the whole process again setting up the slates on the crosshead screws & ballbearings, and the soundstages on top – back to where we started, except with the benefit of a Pearcy set-up of course!!
This is by far the best set-up. It has height, lightness, bass extension, width, detail, bass weight, pretty much the lot. I am happy with this to the point that I won’t be changing it.
Pearcy is still keen to try the soundbases directly onto the floor, but we ran out of time, and I’ve been there before anyway, albeit unsuccessfully.
It would have been good to get Mekon’s opinions too, but there is always another day. I’m going round to Pearcy’s place sometime to hear his stage 7 mana setup, and will probably now invest in a Mana equipment rack.
My speakers are at least now sorted once and for all – and I’m really pleased with the result – especially now I’ve compared it to what I had before.
Result
I was actually quite pleased that he thought the system as it stood to be sounding pretty good, which is kind of what I thought too. He was surprised at how much bass I was getting and said he hadn’t heard SBL’s doing it this good before, which was encouraging.
So, there were no obvious disasters to attend to – but I had my 18mm 330x300mm MDF boards cut, sanded and sprayed matt black ready to go, as yet untried – so we had to have a play.First thing we did was give it a good listen as it stood, then took out the Soundbases and sat the SBL’s onto the slate slabs.
Interesting as I haven’t heard this for a while now, and the soundstage collapsed in height, the bass was still good although not as extended, and the general width was still pretty good. So not as good as with the soundbases, but pretty OK really – not a disaster. I was almost happy to just put the soundbases back, but Pearcy insists on trying the MDF, so we stuck the MDF under the SBL’s without the Mana. Initially I thought it was an improvement, but after about a minute I changed my mind. I don’t think Pearcy thought it as bad as me, but the bass was warm and woolly, undefined and – well – woolly. The treble became warmer and any hardness here disappeared, but I then thought maybe that the high treble was just rolled off!! Not too good. We then put the Mana on the MDF.
The soundstage collapsed again and the soundstage was placed between the speakers with no projection sideways or in height. I think it was awful. Pearcy picked up on the treble becoming spitty at some stage and I can’t remember which configuration this got worse or when it got better – so maybe he can put a post here and clear that up. I think by this point it was an improvement in the treble, but I had made my mind up pretty early with this configuration that the slates had to go back in.
Pearcy was good enough to go through the whole process again setting up the slates on the crosshead screws & ballbearings, and the soundstages on top – back to where we started, except with the benefit of a Pearcy set-up of course!!
This is by far the best set-up. It has height, lightness, bass extension, width, detail, bass weight, pretty much the lot. I am happy with this to the point that I won’t be changing it.
Pearcy is still keen to try the soundbases directly onto the floor, but we ran out of time, and I’ve been there before anyway, albeit unsuccessfully.
It would have been good to get Mekon’s opinions too, but there is always another day. I’m going round to Pearcy’s place sometime to hear his stage 7 mana setup, and will probably now invest in a Mana equipment rack.
My speakers are at least now sorted once and for all – and I’m really pleased with the result – especially now I’ve compared it to what I had before.
Result
Yup, you could say I'm impressed with Mana
Hi there,
Was a pretty good evening, although I was (still am) suffering from the effects of flu, so wasn't feeling my best & had to decline Robs kind offer of beer
As Rob said I was impressed at the level of bass Robs getting from his SBLS -he is running them close to the back wall which helps, but suspect that being driven by 135's helps even more
I have heard SBL's previously & had experienced a low bass frequency 'roll off' which Robs pair didn't seem to suffer with.
Findings re set-up changes pretty much as per Robs post, except for I personally thought the treble got a bit spitty once the sound bases were installed on top of the MDF, which did surprise me as this is not part of the usual mana effect.
I agree that the best set-up was indeed the slate/sound bases, although feel that any interface added between the floor & soundbases will have an affect on the ability of the soundbases to work 'as designed', so would like to try the sound bases directly onto floor. -The main problem with this, is that it is v.difficult to stop the soundbases from 'riding on the top' of the carpet causing difficulties with the set up. The only way I have found as a solution is to use a bradle of similar to open up the 4 spike holes enough so that the spikes are able to couple effectively with the floor allowing proper set-up/tuning of the board etc. Although I do appreciate that some people may not be too keen on attacking their carpet! -through personal experience I have not found carpet damage to be a problem, as the holes are really just 'parted weave' & usually dissappear when 'rubbed'.
The set-up of the sound bases when I arrived was found to be pretty good, apart from the nuts, which had been done up too tight -a common mistake with most new Mana users.This is the main difference between Mana & other supports. The nuts really do only have to be taken just past finger tight. If you have to use more than finger+1 thumb on the spanner then chances are -its too tight!
Hopefully Rob +maybe Ian Keller too, will be popping round to hear my system next week, once I am feeling better & we can enjoy some good music/beer etc
Was a pretty good evening, although I was (still am) suffering from the effects of flu, so wasn't feeling my best & had to decline Robs kind offer of beer
As Rob said I was impressed at the level of bass Robs getting from his SBLS -he is running them close to the back wall which helps, but suspect that being driven by 135's helps even more
I have heard SBL's previously & had experienced a low bass frequency 'roll off' which Robs pair didn't seem to suffer with.
Findings re set-up changes pretty much as per Robs post, except for I personally thought the treble got a bit spitty once the sound bases were installed on top of the MDF, which did surprise me as this is not part of the usual mana effect.
I agree that the best set-up was indeed the slate/sound bases, although feel that any interface added between the floor & soundbases will have an affect on the ability of the soundbases to work 'as designed', so would like to try the sound bases directly onto floor. -The main problem with this, is that it is v.difficult to stop the soundbases from 'riding on the top' of the carpet causing difficulties with the set up. The only way I have found as a solution is to use a bradle of similar to open up the 4 spike holes enough so that the spikes are able to couple effectively with the floor allowing proper set-up/tuning of the board etc. Although I do appreciate that some people may not be too keen on attacking their carpet! -through personal experience I have not found carpet damage to be a problem, as the holes are really just 'parted weave' & usually dissappear when 'rubbed'.
The set-up of the sound bases when I arrived was found to be pretty good, apart from the nuts, which had been done up too tight -a common mistake with most new Mana users.This is the main difference between Mana & other supports. The nuts really do only have to be taken just past finger tight. If you have to use more than finger+1 thumb on the spanner then chances are -its too tight!
Hopefully Rob +maybe Ian Keller too, will be popping round to hear my system next week, once I am feeling better & we can enjoy some good music/beer etc
quote:
Originally posted by Pearcy:
The set-up of the sound bases when I arrived was found to be pretty good,
Not bad for a novice., eh!