Speeding On The M4 In Wiltshire !!!!

good one

Oh my god!
Reality check needed!!!

The number plate recognition system is designed to detect entires on the police computer checks done. this could be anything from persons wanted for arrest, people who have not paid fines for 'anything' to other info markers.

Cops decide on the day as to what point something 'pings' on the computer that they are going to have a look at. This is called discretion.

The ANPR can be wired into CCTV! Bugger, unless your car gets pinched and the computer pings it up so it can be intercepted.

I fully understand some of the negative comments here, and the qualification of some to impose sanctions upon us, but it would be good if we also looked at the positive aspects some of this technology can achieve.

It's not the technologys fault. Its the practitioners who legislate for it, and the authority that use it that should be accountable to the public.

andy c!

While it may be still true that the innocent have little to fear. The "1984" scenario becomes ever more achievable with each new advance in technology.

Combine vehicle recognition with facial recognition. Millions of street cameras with GPS. Credit cards and ID cards with chips tracking every purchase and store-shelf item. Inner city congestion tagging with cheap super-computers and hi-res satellite imaging. Webcams and universal wireless online presence. Spyware and tracking bots. Suddenly many a "democratically elected" dictator's fondest wish falls neatly into his lap.

While I have little sympathy for those breaking the law. What about mass, lawful protesters against a bad law?

It doesn't take much imagination to think that the majority-party-leader-dictatorship by sound bite (which passes for democracy today) would not pause for a moment to isolate opposition to their more barmy ideas. Using whatever technology was to hand. It would be far too tempting and far too easy in the name of "terrorism against the state" as voting percentages fall ever lower.

And they'd still cheerfully trot out their well-rehearsed one-liners to the cameras in PM's Question time. As the masses seethed and strained against the razor-wire in their packed concentration camps.

One day drizzle may be the only thing that will protect you from continuous observation. Though IR imaging (infra red) will probably get round that particular little problem.

Nime in drizzly, grey paranoia, innit?

quote:

What about mass, lawful protesters against a bad law?

Thats what the Human Rights Act is there for. Have a read of articles 8 thru 11 sometime.

Nime, I empathise with your thoughts, but I say jokingly 'doom and gloom' (In a golum type voice!)

andy c!

quote:

It's not the technologys fault. Its the practitioners who legislate for it, and the authority that use it that should be accountable to the public.

Fair play Andy and I'm totally with the coppers who still manage to use their discretion as most of them do.

We cannot blame the police for enforcing legislation they themselves have no say in, other than when they don't exercise such due discretion in enforcement thereof.

Last night I got the radio op to follow me in my own car while I dropped off the taxi for the day driver.

He was followed by a copper who thought he took the junction turn before the drop-off point a bit too quickly.

The copper pulled up alongside us both in the cul-de-sac as we swapped over in my car before I dropped the radio op guy home.

I was thinking that maybe MY CAR had something like a tail light out...(no)


As soon as the copper saw the glint of my taxi badge worn on my chest under the street lamp, he promptly offered his apologies and fucked off.

HOWEVER:

When the PIGS (or Scamera partnership vermin) stick a mobile camera after the set of traffic lights on the A51 North of Weston to enforce a 40 limit before it becomes a 60 300 yards further up the DUAL CARRIAGEWAY, and along a stretch of road that has no buildings, pavements or streetlamps on either side WHATSOEVER (they've merely extended the 40 limit way too far after the junction/semi built-up area so as to RAKE IN CASH AND PENALISE WILLINGLY CONSCIENSOUS DRIVERS) they are clearly there for no other purpose than to collect revenue.

It would be justice for someone to pull up behind the scamera van and tell its occupants to FRO/ask them if they are really there to reduce accidents!

I'll concede that it would be an excessive response to chuck either stones or petrol bombs at the scamera van parked at such a LUCRATIVE spot.

quote:

It would be justice for someone to pull up behind the scamera van and tell its occupants to FRO/ask them if they are really there to reduce accidents!

Bad decision, as if the camera's are video instead of digital, all they'd do is film ya gobbing off, then the revenue would be for using abusive language etc

Seriously tho, I do agree with you re the misuse of such camera's. But there are examples near where I live where they have worked well in slowing vehicles down at places that were crash hotspots, and i can testify to this, too


It's all about trying to achieve a balanced, thoughtful response rather than cerchinking as u say being the only reason for them being there.

But you can't get away from the legislation which says 'tho shalt not excedd the given speed limit for the road in question, my son!'


andy c!

Would those who moan about the cameras being fund raisers prefer a fine and a penalty point on their license after an appearance in the magistrates court and their name in the local paper? Or do you prefer to just pay the bill and get off "scot-free"?

Don't you actively choose to donate to the camera fundraising effort by your own driving behaviour?

Obey the law and they can't touch you. Break the law and you are a common criminal. Who should be punished.

What is worse you may have your family in the car while you are exceeding the speed limit to gain one car length on the road. What message does that give your wife and more importantly, your kids? Your wife can't say anything because she probably does the same. You don't listen to her anyway when she tells you to slow down. But the kids aren't taking any notice. They're used to your angry banter about speed limits and your agressive driving.

I am constantly overtaken by drivers with a car full of occupants. Are the kids totally unaware that their father or mother chooses to break the law as regularly as he/she feels the need? Particularly when he yells "slow-coach" or some other term he has reserved for those who stick like glue to the speed limit (and obey the law).

Will he or she wonder "what's got into them" when their kids take to a life of crime and coppers are regularly standing on their doorstep with a police car at the kerb?

Which crimes are "okay" and which are not?

Who gives you the absolute right to pick and choose?

A burglar is an absolute pest. But he rarely hurts anyone. But how about you speeding past the kids waiting for their busses outside the school? Or crossing the street on your high-speed rat-run on your way to work because you never leave home on time? Or do you always drive like that everywhere?

"It was an accident" you bleat to the ambulance crew. Who have carried the mashed bodies away in their meat wagon through all the long and bloody years.

Yeah right! And it was only a bottle of tomato sauce and some old shop dummies who got hurt by your "accident".

"They should have a speed camera here!" you shout angrily at the copper, who calmly asks to see your license. Despite the carnage that you have caused is scattered right across four lanes. But he's seen it all before. Again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and ......

Nime - I've rarely, if ever, read such a load of drivel on this forum. Go back to reading your Daily Mail.

What's the "Daily Mail" ?

quote:

Would those who moan about the cameras being fund raisers prefer a fine and a penalty point on their license after an appearance in the magistrates court and their name in the local paper?

If you get done for speeding via a speed camera, the conditional penalty is points (usually 3 but depending upon speed) and a fine (usually £60.00 but again see previous).

The argument for camera's is good provided that the authorities are open re the fact they are there to calm roads that are crash hotspots. The finite police resources (including the staffing of these camera's) deserve to be put in places where they have the best impact re driver safety, which is what this is all about. Provided the evidence is there to support this, I have no issue with speed or red light camera's being placed at such locations. Indeed I have provided evidence to the Accident stats dept's which have led to the placing of such devices.

Speed camera's are only one way to engineer driving behaviour out of the contributory factors involved in a crash.

Finally, we need to think of others, not just our selves, re driving attitude and manner. A lot of traffic law is about safety and prevention, not just to be bereted and ridiculed because we 'think' we are better drivers etc.

Just ask yourself this question; "How often have I had to stop, swerve, slow down, alter course etc because of another driver who was not concentrating or driving according to the 'normal' standard?"

let they who are without sin throw the first concrete block!

andy c!

It's easy to tell if cameras are the best way to reduce accidents in a given area. If they generate no income they've worked! Does anyone have any data about speed camera income year on year? Logically, if you accept they work in reducing accidents, the income should fall or stay the same as car use increases. I'd like to see a fines per cars per hours database published.

There are other methods to warn drivers about their speed. I'd personally like to see cars themselves warn you if you are exceeding the speed limit in a given area. Perhaps SatNavs could do this?

Regards

Stephen

quote:

Originally posted by Nime:
Which crimes are "okay" and which are not?

Well, I'd suggest that someone doing 80mph on a dry, empty motorway is okay and I fancy the motorway police would agree with me. They are certainly doing less harm than the friendly, caring burglar in your post.

Speeders in urban areas when pedestrians are about, however, are a different matter.

Also, the idea that kids in the back of a car being driven at 5mph/10mph above the speed limit are going to develop total disrespect for the law and turn into career criminals is laughable.

At the end of the day, there is more to safe driving than sticking rigidly to speed limits. The last time I drove past a pavement full of secondary school kids in a 30mph limit I FELT I was going too fast - I checked the speedo and I was doing 25mph - this was totally legal but too fast in my opinion for the circumstances - so I slowed down a bit.

Matt.

Hi Stevey G

I'm all for bit of constructive criticism.

Actually my mother always read the Daily Mail and she was a lifelong (middle class) socialist. Something to do with fighting on the Eastern Front in the war I think.

If you ever wanted to get down to the West Country in a hurry she was an ace behind the wheel of her Rover V8! I think she was always in a hurry so she could finish the Times, Telegraph and Daily Mail crosswords before my father.

Nime

quote:

Don't you actively choose to donate to the camera fundraising effort by your own driving behaviour?

Quite often not.

Don't you just love these ill-informed glib rhetorical questions.



Some cameras are deliberately situated so as to mislead drivers into thinking that they are driving below the speed limit when they are not.

Examples of this are 30 and 40 limits (and the cameras that enforce them) that are moved several hundred yards beyond the boundary of a built up area into what was previously a higher speed limit.

As you enter the village of Sandon on the A51 heading North towards Stone and Stoke you can still see the 40 markings on the road where the limit used to begin. By the time you reach this point you've already passed the first GATSO camera zapping drivers for doing more than 40. This is about two miles further up than the scamera van on the extended 40 limit as you leave Weston.

Another example is when limits are lowered from 40 to 30 and no warning signs are provided to advise of a revised speed limit. They simply remove the 40 repeater signs. A copper friend of mine got done in this way in Cannock (except that they didn't even remove the repeater signs, they just covered them in black bin bags and one of the bags actually blew off in the gales.)

Interestingly, on another stretch of road where the limit was cut from 40 to 30 only a mile away, there are signs warning that the limit is now 30...

You guessed it - no cameras on that stretch!

Thus (otherwise) law-abiding, speed limit-observing drivers are being ensnared by cameras solely for the purposes of raking in cash and making the use of private transport an unpleasant experience.

The only reason why I haven't (yet) been caught by one of these scameras is because I'm too much of a cynical bastard - my lack of faith in speed cameras existing for the purposes of safety is what keeps my licence clean.

I'm simply on the look-out all the time for obvious places to put a camera to ensnare the highest number of drivers.

Steve,
in principle i think you and I agree.

I am for them in places where they serve a potential to reduce injuries, but not in places where it would appear to be 'blatant' revenue collecting only.

andy c!

quote:

Steve,
in principle i think you and I agree.

In principle, yes we do.

quote:

Just ask yourself this question; "How often have I had to stop, swerve, slow down, alter course etc because of another driver who was not concentrating or driving according to the 'normal' standard?"

From time to time, and it nearly always happens within posted speed limits.

Sunday at about 5.30pm some curly black-haired bitch (late thirties/early forties) in a blue Corsa came round a roundabout on the wrong side. I had to brake hard to avoid hitting her as I approached the roundabout and she was coming at me from my left...

Later at about 11.30pm another of our drivers saw her go through a traffic light junction on red and on the wrong side of the road (she must have thought she was an ambulance )

Fortunately a copper also saw her do it...

Under such circumstances speed cameras are as useful as a chocolate teapots/fireguards.

Toy

I am really begining to think you are as thick as two short planks nailed together.

Speed cameras only detect idiots who speed. Getting those pillocks off the street is a small part of making the roads as safe as possible.

I saw a fool using a mobile today, his sort should face a 12 month ban.

There are many idiots who think they know better than the law and we need more weapons not less to kick them off the road.

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
A 19 year old lad has just been jailed for two years at Swindon County Court for speeding his ford Anglia car (downhill with a strong wind behind him) at 73MPH. A local Town Elder Mr Micky Parrey was quoted as saying "These kids really must learn somehow, I know it's his first offence and that he's studying to be a postman, but the Law is the Law". Upon being led to the cell's to begin his sentence the prisoner commented "Yeah my Dad's always been a bit of a stickler for righteousness and fairplay, God bless his cotton socks"

Fritz Von Our man in the dirty mac outside the nick disguised as a Journo

http://www.youramazingbrain.org.uk/

Chaps

I was at a social function last night enjoying a jolly good meal with a few policemen.

Their overall concensus was that the cameras are doing an excellent job and it is only a question of when and not if, will all motorways be monitored in the same way.

It seems to be making the roads safer and earning the beleagured tax payer a bit of revenue, so other than for the morons who speed, it is a win-win situation.

If you don't like the idea........tough.

Better start learning to curb your speed chaps.

Regards

Mick

quote:

Speed cameras only detect idiots who speed

This implies 69 is safe 71 is not - a statement which is utter rubbish, I would ask you to re-read some of my posts. It’s a money raising scam for the cops and nothing more, how many times do we have to say LOOK at the figures. Deaths on the roads are going up - fact. Prosecutions are massively up funny that isn’t it and there are plenty of police who take exactly the opposite view than you found Mick. The ones you were talking to were top brass I’d expect.

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:
It seems to be making the roads safer

Mick, if that's true could you please explain why, since police have started relying on speed cameras to do their job for them, the annual death toll in the UK has not only stopped going down but started going up again? While you're at it could you let me know what the speed cameras are doing about the one million uninsured/unlicensed drivers currently getting around on UK roads? What about all the people who fall asleep at the wheel - seem to recall one of them causing a very large train crash a few years back? What are they doing about people talking on mobiles, or worse, texting while driving? I could go on but the point is that a speed camera is a very poor substitute for police on the roads.

snap

quote:

Originally posted by Martin D:
snap

I obviously type too slowly.

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
A 19 year old lad has just been jailed for two years at Swindon County Court for speeding his ford Anglia car (downhill with a strong wind behind him) at 73MPH. A local Town Elder Mr Micky Parrey was quoted as saying "These kids really must learn somehow, I know it's his first offence and that he's studying to be a postman, but the Law is the Law". Upon being led to the cell's to begin his sentence the prisoner commented "Yeah my Dad's always been a bit of a stickler for righteousness and fairplay, God bless his cotton socks"

Fritz Von Our man in the dirty mac outside the nick disguised as a Journo

http://www.youramazingbrain.org.uk/

Don't forget the Brotherhood of Drunks innit

Fritz Von I bet Mr Galloway didn't get where he is today by speeding, and breaking the law