Speeding On The M4 In Wiltshire !!!!

Martin

You said

"This implies 69 is safe 71 is not

I never said that. What I am saying is that cameras are just one of many weapons to prosecute bad driving.

We need more cameras and more policemen.

John

I will find out about your statements ref increased accident rates etc.

I will be out on another soiree next week and will respond accordingly.

Whatever you think of cameras, they are here to stay so get used to the idea.

Regards

Mick

quote:

weapons to prosecute bad driving

But they are just prosecuting people breaking the speed limit. 40 mph at 2am in a 30 mph limit may well be 'safe' but driving the same road at 30mph, just as the school kids are coming out, could be very unsafe indeed. It is the arbitarty nature of the speed camera that has me po'ed. I've been stopped a number of times, over many years for speeding, warned after my vehicle was checked and let on my way more often than not. Never have I been prosecuted for 'unsafe' or 'dangerous' driving although I will admit to a few points for speeding. Even 120mph indicated on the M3, clear, dry road, good light and nice Golf GTI with 120k on it did not get me a 'dangerous driving' charge. I like being stopped by a traffic cop, that has been trained as a far better driver/rider than I will ever be and I can respect whilst a camera on a pole is no deterant to bad driving.

My 2 cents worth

Andy

quote:

Speed cameras only detect idiots who speed. Getting those pillocks off the street is a small part of making the roads as safe as possible.

A very small part indeed.

Unfortunately far too much emphasis is being placed on this very small part to the detriment of other much more significant causes of road traffic accidents.

Revenue and phase shifting are the obvious objectives behind this over emphasis on such a small part.

Inattention is a bigger killer than speed.

What causes inattention?

The answer my inarticulate friend from Wiltshire is boredom or tiredness - which in turn is often caused by being forced to drive unnecessarily slowly...

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Chaps

I was at a social function last night enjoying a jolly good meal with a few policemen.


Mick

I should have realised you were in with the funny handshake crowd.



Stephen

Just agree with what John etc above posted...!

speed camera's only help to a small degree in crash reduction. They also may prevent stuff, but that in itself is difficult to measure.

PS To some degree Fatals are caused by bad drivers. If drivers drove properly then we would not be discussing this.

andy c!

On ITV news speeding PC who travelled at over 80 mph in a 30 mph limit and
159 mph on the motorway has had his case dropped - his defence, he was honing his driving skills. Interestingly the court was not convinced with the prosecuting police evidence that the PC was driving dangerously.

Mick in some regards i could agree with you, the point i was making is that safety is not as simple as the number shown on a dial. Speed is 7th in cause out of ten of accidents, why not concentrate some resourse on the other 9 causes? It would mean more cops on the road ( sadly lacking at the mo) and not as easy as trousering dosh for doing 78 on an empty motorway (which has happened)
Martin

quote:

Originally posted by Martin D:
On ITV news speeding PC who travelled at over 80 mph in a 30 mph limit and
159 mph on the motorway has had his case dropped - his defence, he was honing his driving skills.

That really is a disgrace as basically it means any traffic policeman can drive at any speed he likes anywhere without any need to justify it.

In this case the car involved was unmarked and had no blue lights or sirens. As far as the public were concerned all they'd have seen was a maniac driver doing up to 84mph in a 30mph speed limit.

Next time I get caught for speeding I wonder if a defence of "honing my skills" and that it was ok to drive at well above the speed limits "in order to assess my vehicles limits and capabilities".

If those arrogant fuckers want to assess their vehicles limits and capabilities safely then why don't they book a track day like the rest of us?

This has only reinforced my opinion that most traffic officers are scum.

Nationwide (Seperate) Highway Patrol, & FBI style National Force to compensate other inadeqacies, with all speed camera's and other equipments actually belonging to the State, and not eternally PFI rented etc (at hiked prices) costing the State £ Millions in Backhanders into the 'Bargain'

quote:

This has only reinforced my opinion that most traffic officers are scum.

steve,
Glad you did not say all of em!

andy c!

quote:

Wed 22 January 2003

andy c
Senior Member
posted Wed 18 May 2005 16:06
quote:
This has only reinforced my opinion that most traffic officers are scum.



steve,
Glad you did not

I know a couple of traffic cops and they are genuinly nice guys. They are also very fair however I tend to find those that call them have done something wrong in the first place.

Regards


PB

quote:

This has only reinforced my opinion that most traffic officers are scum.

That's a bit harsh and untrue.

It would be like saying that all/most taxi drivers are scum etc.

Most traffic cops are decent, fair and exercise due discretion.

I agree that like in any other walk of life though, you do get the odd arsehole.

John,
You are very forthright in your opinion - I respect that - but don't make the basic mistake of tarring all with the same brush.

JMHO

andy c!

PS for the record if the facts quoted are accurate I don't think the advanced driver defence should have stood in this case... and i do know what I'm talking about here...

quote:

PS for the record if the facts quoted are accurate I don't think the advanced driver defence should have stood in this case... and i do know what I'm talking about here...

I agree with you Andy, the courts have made a bad descision. He was driving at excessive speeds, sorry unacceptable speeds, and he should have been punished the same as Joe public would have been.

A bloke told me once that he always drives much better after 6 good pints + and a good old ruby

Fritz Von Bet we'd all be rich getting a tanner after every time we'd heard that one, innit ?

quote:

he should have been punished the same as Joe public would have been

If that were me or J. Public we'd get 10 years in the electric chair

Had he been off-duty in his own car driving at these speeds there is no way on earth a defence of 'familiarising himself with the vehicle' and 'honing his skills' would have stood up. What difference is there when these were the only reasons he was doing it at work in an unmarked car? It was no more or less dangerous whether he was on or off-duty.
I know I'd probably end up inside if I was caught at 159mph on the public road 'honing my skills'.
It's not the speed that upsets me, nor do I necessarily agree it was dangerous driving, in fact I do not have a problem with what he actually did, it's the fact he was caught bang to rights and was let off because of the above excuse. The speed limits aren't flexible based on your ability.

Ade

quote:

Originally posted by Ade Archer:
The speed limits aren't flexible based on your ability.

Unless you are "above the law".

Am I correct in thinking that a member of the Emergency Services can only exceed speed limits or contravine the Road Traffic Act if actively responding to an emergency or involved in the pursuit of crime ?

I suppose waiting for a Judicial Review or a statement from our wonderful new government is pointless . Upholding the .............. what ?

quote:

Originally posted by Ade Archer:
It's not the speed that upsets me, nor do I necessarily agree it was dangerous driving, in fact I do not have a problem with what he actually did

I'm surprised you don't have a problem with someone doing 84mph in a 30mph limit.

Different forces would adopt different policies, but many police drivers aren't even, as a result of the driving qualification they hold, supposed to exceed the speed limits by more than 10 mph. There are a number of different driving grades, with certain restrictions on the speeds allowed and the type of vehicle that can be driven, but even the advanced drivers aren't supposed to be teararsing around just because they feel like seeing what they're car, and they, are capable of.
The abilities of the vehicle to perform it's function as a high speed patrol vehicle should have been tested before it was even added to the fleet.

Ade

quote:

The abilities of the vehicle to perform it's function as a high speed patrol vehicle should have been tested

No way would i have been in (or near) a bloody Vectra at those speeds

quote:

I'm surprised you don't have a problem with someone doing 84mph in a 30mph limit.

Are you seriously telling me that every road you have travelled on with a 30mph limit, has a speed limit appropriate to that road, no matter what time of the day or night.
Apologies if you were actually travelling along the road in question at the same time, and immediately behind this officer and can confirm he was indeed driving dangerously

Ade

The driver is a law-breaking buffoon. There is no excuse for his actions at all.

What seems to be forgotten is that the case was called for by colleagues who noted his actions whilst reviewing in-car video footage.

84mph in a designated 30mph is dangerous, stupid and WRONG.

He should be jailed, kicked out the force and permanently banned from driving for his open disregard for the laws he was meant to be upholding.

What next ? I was only testing the sight on the rifle when I shot the kid........... honest.

I never excused him for his actions. On the face of it 84mph in a 30mph zone seems irresponsible, but I do not have a problem with it because I did not see the in-car footage, so am unable to make the judgement as to whether the driving was dangerous or not. It may have been, it may not, but it is very narrow-minded to have the attitude that exceeding any speed limit is always dangerous.
On what grounds do you suggest he should be banned for life from driving when drink/drivers or those who cause death by dangerous driving aren't.

Let me see if I understand it correctly. Speed limits are to be adhered to. If we break the speed limit and dependent upon the gravity of the offence we are liable to fines, disqualification and ultimatley imprisonment.

Yet here we have a police officer who was not attending an emergency.

"Pc Milton...was "familiarising himself" with a new car, the court was told."

"District Judge Bruce Morgan acquitted him after calling the constable the "creme de la creme" of police drivers."

Oh, so that's alright then. As long you're a copper you can get away with it. I'm speechless.

Perhaps I shouldn't be. After all, it wasn't that long ago that another copper, chauffering his boss, escaped prosecution for excessive speeding which would have resulted in you and I being no doubt disqualified.

How can we respect the police? How can we respect the justice system? How can we respect the enforcement of speed limitsor any other law for that matter when faced with this?

Welcome to Blair's Britain.

Hope I am not around when he familiarises himself with his firearm.