Speeding On The M4 In Wiltshire !!!!

'Newsnight' has just reported that the judge likened PC Milton to "a concert pianist".
At least that solves the mystery of the bewildered chap in Kent. Class 1 Police Driver, obviously. They can take him back to Shropshire now. Shouldn't take more than 90 mins.

"Look Dear! It's a conceited penis speeding again!"

Michael Schumacher got fined over here awhile back for speeding, mind you he's not police trained, so I don't expect he was experienced enough to get let off, innit.

Fritz Von Did I really start this thread ?

Pish: I loved the copper in Blackpool defending all police drivers, and saying speeding isn't the issue here, cos they're all so brilliant, I wonder who causes police accidents then ?

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The speed limits aren't flexible based on your ability.

In relation to emergency's, thats not strictly true...

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Am I correct in thinking that a member of the Emergency Services can only exceed speed limits or contravine the Road Traffic Act if actively responding to an emergency or involved in the pursuit of crime ?

Thats the current position according to the legislation and stated cases currently in place...

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Different forces would adopt different policies, but many police drivers aren't even, as a result of the driving qualification they hold, supposed to exceed the speed limits by more than 10 mph. There are a number of different driving grades, with certain restrictions on the speeds allowed and the type of vehicle that can be driven, but even the advanced drivers aren't supposed to be teararsing around just because they feel like seeing what they're car, and they, are capable of.
The abilities of the vehicle to perform it's function as a high speed patrol vehicle should have been tested before it was even added to the fleet.

Drivers do have to familiarise themselves with the vehicle, although finding out its top speed was not on my list of priorities - i wanted to know if it could corner/stop/accelerate quickly etc for obvious reasons...

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No way would i have been in (or near) a bloody Vectra at those speeds

I preferred the Cosworth or the Volvo...

Seriously, that speed - I just don't understand why?

It is important that emergency drivers (police/fire/ambulance) know what their vehicles are capable of, but the way they are taught is supposed to build in safety features to protect themselves and other motorists. On the course they are also taught about accountability. I would have a severe concience about doing what the vectra driver has done.

I'll get me stab vest ready...

andy c!

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Originally posted by Ade Archer:
Are you seriously telling me that every road you have travelled on with a 30mph limit, has a speed limit appropriate to that road, no matter what time of the day or night.

I've never seen a 30mph limit in which 84mph was appropriate.

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Apologies if you were actually travelling along the road in question at the same time, and immediately behind this officer and can confirm he was indeed driving dangerously

I'll ignore the idiocy of your comment but I will note that I've seen many instances of bad/dangerous driving by marked police cars (including traffic cards) and I've also no idea how many of the other instances of dangerous driving I've seen have involved unmarked cars like that one.

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I'll ignore the idiocy of your comment but I will note that I've seen many instances of bad/dangerous driving by marked police cars (including traffic cards) and I've also no idea how many of the other instances of dangerous driving I've seen have involved unmarked cars like that one.

If you have then you should complain to the chief constable re what you saw. Don't give me any flannel either about 'they won't do owt about it' they will. Even if it serves only to make the officer realise they were wrong - it will have a sobering effect, trust me.

andy c!

I'm dumfounded that we have a situation where an arsehole policeman can decide to take out an unmarked car and, just for the hell of it, he can take it out see just how far over every speed limit he can push it while video taping his actions. On viewing the tape (I've heard a rumour that the driver was boasting about the speeds and showed the tape to colleagues himself!) his colleages were appalled enough that they reported his actions and a prosectution was initiated. That some fool of a judge can not only completely let him off with it but indeed praise him for his actions is almost beyond belief.

A year or two back a motorcyclist in Wales had a video camera mounted on his motorbike. When stopped by police doing random tax-disc checks the camera was confiscated (on what grounds I don't know as he hadn't been stopped for any alleged offence) and the video tape reviewed. The tape held footage of the biker doing very high speeds (similar to the speeds reached by the police officer) on empty A-roads but strictly observing urban speed limits. The result was something like a 6-month stretch inside and the training and experience (track days etc.) of the rider was not regarded as being any kind of mitigation.

It's definitely one rule for us and one rule for them with the only surprising thing being the judge stating that to be the case as clearly as he did (despite their being no legislation suggesting what the police driver did was in any way legal).

Still we shouldn't be surprised by the hypocrisy when we've had goverment ministers cars stopped for speeding and let off, or senior police officers cars ignoring speed limits because they were late for meetings, or when we have a government minister with some responsibility for road safety spouting on about how bad speeding is when he himself has had 3 speeding convictions in the last 3 years...

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Originally posted by andy c:
If you have then you should complain to the chief constable re what you saw. Don't give me any flannel either about 'they won't do owt about it' they will. Even if it serves only to make the officer realise they were wrong - it will have a sobering effect, trust me.

If a police driver can't be prosecuted successfully (and worse he even gets praise from the judge for his actions)when there is video taped evidence of his guilt then why should a member of the public think there is any point reporting such offences? I've experience of how vindictive police officers can be so, especially as a motorcyclist, I would not go out of my way to ask for that sort of trouble.

In any case in the instances I've seen I've been in no position to get the details of the vehicles involved because I was too busy taking action to avoid an accident.

Steve,
Fair enough, I take your points.

I just think it ridiculous that the above circumstances re the police vehicles described should go unpunished. Re the video tape, tho, that is somewhat elastic but legal as the video is corroboration of the speeding offence (and as we already know, because in the vectra case) this can be used in evidence.

andy c!

Andy - at the time the video tape was confiscated there had been no allegation of any offence having taken place.

My mate Dave witnessed a terrible police patrol car driving fuck up in Essex recently, he reported it, but refused to give his name etc, to be told it would be ignored without his particulars.
What fun he had the following week when the drug squad turned up at his house at 03:00 hrs with a search warrant, and turned his house and family upside down. Never having been arrested or charged with anything in his life, unsuprisingly no drugs etc were found either. He's been stopped three times in the last weeks too, (first time ever in fact), well I do hope it's different in Wiltshire, but I doubt it very much, innit.

Fritz Von People'll get nicked for not helping a copper in distress next !!!

Power corrupts. Absolute power will get you to 159mph and get you off with a pat on the back?

I don't doubt this will run and run. I wonder what they'll have to say in The House of Commons? Since this is a matter of national importance and undermines every attempt to limit illegal speeding and punish those who break the law.

It makes our Anglia driver, which provoked Fritz's thread, look like a model citizen. I'm wondering whether there won't be a few attempted appeals from those convicted for speeding. Particularly as this "conceited pianist" has set the bar so high.

The daft bugger should be stewing in jail if there was shred of justice. What's the braking distance from 159mph assuming the brakes were in tip-top condition? Do they use special brake pads on these police chavmobiles?

Nime

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Originally posted by Nime:
The daft bugger should be stewing in jail if there was shred of justice. What's the braking distance from 159mph assuming the brakes were in tip-top condition? Do they use special brake pads on these police chavmobiles?

I've been on motorway sections where there is enough visibility and no slip-roads so 159mph wouldn't necessarily be dangerous if there was no other traffic. I can't think of any urban 30mph limits where I'd have though 84mph would be safe though.

I'm amazed a Vectra (even a 3-litre one) could actually do 159mph (an indicated 159mph might be a more realistic 145mph in reality though) but I'd expect that standard brakes would be able to stop it well enough from those speeds, although probably only the once. I'd be more concerned about the suspensions ability to cope though. I passed a Vectra that was doing about 130mph once and it seemed to be bouncing about quite a lot.

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In relation to emergency's, thats not strictly true...

The speed limit for a road is fixed, it is the circumstances under which it is exceeded that is flexible. An advanced driver answering an emergency call may exceed that 30 mph speed limit if necessary, but the speed limit for the road would still remain as 30mph. If any accident occurred whilst doing this, he would have to justify why he exceeded the limit on that particular occasion.
This certainly does not fit the criteria of a police officer answering an emergency call, and I don't think his excuse for doing so is reasonable. I have ridden my motorbike at far in excess of speed limits (not in 30/40/50mph limits I hasten to add) when I felt it was safe to do so, but if I was caught I would have to accept the consequences like anyone else.
The challege in responding to emergencies is not the top speed of the vehicle, but making safe progress through other traffic, and anticipating the actions of other motorists. Unless this officer only responds to incidents along deserted motorways in the dead of night, I'm not sure how much further he 'honed his skills' by doing this.

Ade

Police officers are increasingly under pressure to meet arrest targets, and are often threatened with diciplinary action for low nicks, traffic & Drugs being great Suss subjects to play with, though the Social backfiring of this perverse policy will create great future problems I feel (Politically inspired as per usual).

Fritz Von You voted em in Mick

I'll give the plod the benefit of the doubt.

The judge has seen the videotape and is cool with it. Presumably the guy's a Class 1 Pursuit driver, so maybe he knew what he was doing ? HEY ! He didn't crash !

I don't know the details, but then, neither do the rest of us, but I can imagine that 90mph in a 30mph limit isn't necessarily out of the question. Depends on the time/location/duration etc. 159mph on a motorway is peanuts. Frankly, I put more faith in his judgement than that of someone who isn't experienced in high-speed work.

WRT only driving at these speeds in an emergency, I would prefer that these guys familiarise themselves with the cars when they are not under pressure rather than when they're on a shout.

If he's guilty of anything, it's of failing to formally get approval beforehand. I assume there are some guidelines for testing/high speeds when not on a call, and although he was found not guilty in court, presumably his career will take a nosedive if his boss thinks he made an error of judgement.

There is one rule for them, and one rule for us, and quite right too. If we all had Class 1 training, and were fitted with lights and siren then it would be different.

Brian

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I can't think of any urban 30mph limits where I'd have though 84mph would be safe though

There is a section of road near me that is perfectly straight, leading out onto open countryside, which has a 30mph limit which becomes a 50mph about half a mile further on. Even from a standing start at the last set of lights, you could easily get a car up to 70mph+ before the 50mph sign, and if the road was quiet it would be no more dangerous than driving at that speed on any number of derestricted roads I have been on, in fact there are many sections of such roads that I would not do anywhere near that speed, yet it would be legal to do so.

Ade

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Originally posted by Brian OReilly:
There is one rule for them, and one rule for us, and quite right too. If we all had Class 1 training, and were fitted with lights and siren then it would be different.

Many drivers and riders have had the equivalent of police Class 1 training (I even did my skid-pan training on the police driver training site in Scotland), plus additional track based training. Their vehicles also have exactly the same fit of police lights and sirens as did the Vectra in this case i.e. none. So why is it the case that a civilian driver would be jailed for this offence but the a police driver amusing himself with a new toy gets a pat on the back?

The policeman did not deserve the benefit of the doubt in this case. If he's legally allowed to do what he did (and I've seen no legal justification of that being the case) then the law is wrong.

Wether it be the beating of Rodney King, abuse by various soldiers in foreign prisons, or a speedhead cop in UK, they all have one thing in common in that their ego's allowed for it to be filmed & Gobbed off about, innit.

Fritz Von Thank God for camera's eh ?

P.S. I hope Mrs P is ready with hers to record any illegal wrongdoing by whoever it may be

Heh heh heh. Sorry Steve, but you don't have Class 1 training. I've had five days, road and track with an ex-plod instructor,but that doesn't take you even close to Class 1. Class 1 is v.high speed pursuit through traffic using blues and twos. What we've both done is fairly legal speed stuff.

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Originally posted by Brian OReilly:
Class 1 is v.high speed pursuit through traffic using blues and twos.

No blues and twos in this case as it was an unmarked car which hadn't been fitted with them.

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Originally posted by Nime:
"Look Dear! It's a conceited penis speeding again!"

I thought it was more to do with his truncheon?



Regards

Stephen

I really must apologise for my off-the-cuff corruption of "concert pianist" on a music-based forum. Best I could manage in an emergency. I should very hastily add that I have nothing against concert pianists living or deceased. No matter how fast they play.

Nime

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Class 1 is v.high speed pursuit through traffic using blues and twos. What we've both done is fairly legal speed stuff.

Advanced police driver training is undertaken in both marked and unmarked high performance vehicles. Speeds can be well into 3 figures on the open road, even in the unmarked cars. 30/40/50 speed limits must still be adhered to apart from during specific 'blues and twos' runs to test ones ability to safely make progress at speed through traffic.

I just read 18 pages of repetitive drivel