Speeding On The M4 In Wiltshire !!!!

Jon me old sausage ! The Chief and I live in a neighbourhood that is in theory so child friendly, full of sleeping policeman, and has (after many years of battling by locals) a speed limit in certain (well signposted zones) of 7KPM, Yes, you did read it correctly 7KPM, and a very realistic speed to have to stop at at a milli seconds notice I feel. The raelity is though, the police cannot controll idiots flying around here like madmen, kids have been hurt, and even killed, and the rubbish goes on, even in this almost Socially Adept City. The answer to my mind is unfortunately 'Draconian' anybody caught (Irrespective of who they are) up to a third chance (depending on severity shall be banned for life, and if caught be jailed for a minimum of two years plus, NO DISCUSSIONS, NO BULLSHIT, JUST DO IT. The earlier post re the TVR tragedy is a UK concept, that wouldn't legally happen here (test tracks are everywhere, and the car firm (in my view) are culpbable), (no twin pedals on that one I fear, innit mate).

Cheers,mate Fritz Von Well done Millwall

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However, last year I began a course to become a driving instructor. Obviously to succeed in a career like this demands much higher standards of driving, and a great deal more consideration of other drivers, than one usually expects of the average motorist nowadays.

really? From my observations a good number of them are bloody awful drivers, even if they may be more considerate.

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The earlier post re the TVR tragedy is a UK concept, that wouldn't legally happen here

nobody test drives cars before buying them in Germany? I think you're confused Fritz (what's new?), test drives are meant to involve driving a car you're thinking of buying on public roads at legal speeds to see if you get on with it.

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Originally posted by John Sheridan:

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However, last year I began a course to become a driving instructor. Obviously to succeed in a career like this demands much higher standards of driving, and a great deal more consideration of other drivers, than one usually expects of the average motorist nowadays.

really? From my observations a good number of them are bloody awful drivers, even if they may be more considerate.

Well, OK John, in theory they adhere to high standards of driving...!!

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Originally posted by JonR:
Well, OK John, in theory they adhere to high standards of driving...!!

well, in theory, you'd hope so. One thing I was wondering, do instructors use dual-control cars over here? I ask as I was nearly run-down by a learner a few months back and I've also seen the end result of a learner pulling out of a side street in front of a bus. Both were in driving school cars.

Yes John, they do use dual-control cars here, which makes your experiences all the more surprising! Just to be clear, though, the only controls which are duplicated are the clutch and the foot-brake, NOT the accelerator!

Drove the complete length of the M4 yesterday evening and did not see any of these cameras everyone has been talking about.

Is it an urban myth?

Andy

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Originally posted by JonR:

What troubles me is, we can all sit here in front of a computer and preach about responsible motoring, but how many of us are so mindful of such responsibilities when we're at behind the wheel in an interminable traffic jam, full of other motorists who all just want to get somewhere and are sick and tired of other traffic getting in their way??

Cheers,

Jon

Indignation kills! I try my best to be responsible, observent, polite and safe. But above all I leave my temper and impatience at home. So I'm late for an appointment - so what? What's so important about me?

Well, that's the theory. But I have good days and bad days - don't we all? The fact is that I can be as smug as I like but the second I get distracted or lose concentration my whole world could change for ever. The biggest problem for me is fatigue. I do long trips and frequently spend 4-8 hours on the road, as well as however long it takes to do the appointment/meeting/training/pitch at the client. Whilst I have the ability to be a crap driver at any time, it's those end of the day hours when I really try to pay attention to how I'm feeling and driving. Sometimes I stop frequently.

When levels of concentration go down the risks go up. And that's when trying to drive responsibly. I've seen drivers facing passengers whilst talking to then, reading newspapers, with phones glued to ears and countless blind spot incidents - not IMO exclusively the fault of the driver with the blind spot - other drivers shouldn't be positioned in blind spots to start with (unless they're swiftly moving through). But I think the biggest irritation is tailgating, in all weathers (even snow!!!).

Some people just don't think they bleed. I, on the other hand, have (briefly) seen bits of my insides on the outside after driving at 30mph into a car that shot out of a side turning, about 15 feet in front of my Gold Star. I didn't clear him and somehow managed to inbed myself in his roof and B pillar. Maybe this turned me into a more cautious driver (not that I had a car licence at the time)? Dunno, but it sure taught me life can change significantly in less than a second because somebody wasn't paying attention and I didn't anticipate it.

I loved that bike.....

That sounds like a nasty little accident, Harry, I hope the scars are well healed now. I've been in one or two scrapes in my time, on of which was potentially life threatening. I wasn't the driver in that particular case but it was a salutory reminder nevertheless that an otherwise normal car journey can suddenly turn on you in an instant.

I hate the thought of riding on a motorbike but I always envy bikers who can weave their way to the front of a traffic jam!

The other real bug-bear of mine is people driving whilst using mobile phones. Even truck drivers do it. I find this particularly practice catastrophically irresponsible - there's a law against it now but ISTM many motorists are cynical enough to play the percentages and assume that it's unlikely they will ever get caught.

Cheers,

Jon

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Just to be clear, though, the only controls which are duplicated are the clutch and the foot-brake, NOT the accelerator!

that's what I thought. Wonder what the instructors were doing then? The girl that nearly ran me down was coming towards me and trying to turn right into a street on my left, if you see what I mean. How the instructor let her even begin to turn is a mystery to me, although creeping across intersections does seem to be standard practice in London.

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there's a law against it now but ISTM many motorists are cynical enough to play the percentages and assume that it's unlikely they will ever get caught.

can't say I've seen any reduction in use. All the more amazing when an earpiece only costs a few pounds - although you probably shouldn't even be using that.

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Drove the complete length of the M4 yesterday evening and did not see any of these cameras everyone has been talking about.

Well, keep an eye on your daily post - they have 14 days (with a few exceptions) to notify you if you were speeding...!

Of the many crashes I have dealt with, a lasting impression with me is how the british driver 'in general' thinks they are the best there is, and no collision is their fault!

You have got to break that imbedded train of thought before any real progress is made IMO...

andy c!

What it always comes down to is a lack of willingness by the authorities to do anything serious about excessive speed. Cameras and fines are just another form of tax. A gnat-bite to the motorist's desire to speed excessively.

Notwithstanding Fritz' doubts "sleeping policemen" (traffic calming humps) are a serious impediment to fools.

There were large open trenches in the village high street this week. The continuous traffic is often of juggernaut proportions. (10 wheelers are common) So the road workers had to lay 2" thick steel plates over the open trench to allow the heavy traffic to move on one side of the road only. Interestingly they didn't use traffic lights. They didn't need to.

Believe me, there wasn't a four wheel drive, a tractor, a bike, a motorbike or a lorry that took that 2" high right-angle at anything above walking pace! It was fascinating to watch.

This built-up area is normally taken at 40mph instead of the speed limit of 30mph (50kph) despite there being two schools on one side and a busy shopping area on the other. Not even when the students are crossing in great numbers (to the bus pull-ins on the other side of the road) do the fools slow down! Not the grannies, not the families in their people carriers and certainly not the young kids in their hotted up Golfs. Well, they have *all* slowed down this week!

It was pure chaos. Drivers were pulling into the open lane in front of 10 wheelers and busses because they became so impatient waiting for the traffic to clear the single lane at walking pace instead of their usual (excessive) rate of progress.

Don't tell me such really serious "sleeping policemen" don't work. Because I have seen it for myself.

The only problem with such hard-edged "sleeping" policemen is the noise they produce for those living in the area. But by god they work!

It would not be difficult to design a suitable ramp that allowed traffic to pass quietly at 30mph but took the sump off those who think they know better. I have examined a number of high and steep sided humps on a sheltered housing area locally. Not one ramp is lacking in seriously deep scars from fools who think they can take them at speed as they use the quiet estate road as a rat-run, just to save a quarter of a mile. Perhaps deliberately damaging their own precious cars may be the only and final hindrance these fools will understand?

Given a maximum speed of 60mph on most country roads and 70mph on motorways why would anyone actually need a TVR? Sorry, stupid question.

Nime

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It would not be difficult to design a suitable ramp that allowed traffic to pass quietly at 30mph but took the sump off those who think they know better.

should you ever be in need of emergency medical assistance, remember what you've asked for when it takes the ambulance 'just an extra few minutes' to get to you.
There is NO substitute for effective policing.

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Given a maximum speed of 60mph on most country roads and 70mph on motorways why would anyone actually need a TVR? Sorry, stupid question

not a TVR but perhaps this will give you an idea:

The police need a TVR to chase maniac BMW drivers?

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Originally posted by John Sheridan:

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However, last year I began a course to become a driving instructor. Obviously to succeed in a career like this demands much higher standards of driving, and a great deal more consideration of other drivers, than one usually expects of the average motorist nowadays.

really? From my observations a good number of them are bloody awful drivers, even if they may be more considerate.

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The earlier post re the TVR tragedy is a UK concept, that wouldn't legally happen here

nobody test drives cars before buying them in Germany? I think you're confused Fritz (what's new?), test drives are meant to involve driving a car you're thinking of buying on public roads at legal speeds to see if you get on with it.

Don't patronise me sonny, you have absolutely no idea from what you speak, innit.

Fritz Von Fall asleep in the outback mate, not here in the centre of €urope

I travel this stretch every day. It is true it has its fair share of accidents, primarily brought on by bad driving regardless of speed. Since the camera introduction I have noticed a severe drop in concentration as most folks are to busy watching there speedos as to other road users, in a blind panic to stop getting a fine. I personally think this will ADD the the problems (As THursday's crashes highlight). THe trouble here is the police and swindon saftey camera inc are playing statistics to build revenue, if you look into the figures the majority of fatalities invole HGV,s of some discription which are clearly not doing 90mph.
TH erevenue generation is staring us all in the face but wrapped in a Saftey program. Just look at M4 j19 roadworks the speed through these is now set to 40mph not 50mph as in every other motorway roadwork !! odd isnt it.
Rant over for today, I feal much better :
Andy, they are there you just cant see them, (like all the other Wiltshaire sites, they outsource the mobile cameras - and folks say this isnt a buisness !!)
Phil

Chaps

You all know the rules before you turn on the ignition key. If you are daft enough to drive at over 70 mph, don't waste your time coming up with excuses when you get your 3 points.

Drive at 69 mph and you will be fine, drive at 71 mph and you will be playing a game of russian roulette.

Your choice.

Regards

Mick

Drive at 71 you'll be fine, the cameras are set at 79!

Camlan

If what you are saying is correct, then only totally brain dead morons will be caught and they deserve to be kicked off the roads.

Regards

Mick

Mick.
There are lots of "rules" in this world if we decided to stick with all of them we would indeed be "brain dead morons".
I have yet too see any evidence that travelling at71mph is any more dangerous than travelling at 69mph, but I have seen lots of evidence that crossing lanes without looking by "brain dead morons" is !!
My point here is speed isnt the cause its idoits who cant concentrate on driving that are the danger, and who knows folks that stick to the speed limits religously may be one them ?
Interesting as each country I visit for work all have differnt speed limits, obviously they havnt the benifit of our stataticians to point out the error of ther ways.
Phil

We could all have a simple and foolproof sensor system that automatically made an unswitchable alarm sound in the vehicle when driving too close, dependant on measured speed.

A clearly visible flashing light on top of the dash in addition to the alarm would me impossible to ignore by the driver or others affected by his tailgating behaviour.

A compulsory speed & distance sensor/alarm would immediately cut down on much of the blind stupidity we see and experience every day.

It would not be beyond the whim of the sensor/alarm designers to produce an unswitcahble alarm for those exceeding local speed limits. Roadside transmitters could update the speed sensor to local limits. Alternatively, GPS could carry out the speed limit checking automatically.

No more sleeping policemen? No more fines? Perhaps not. But it would go a long way towards educating drivers as to their illegal behaviour.

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Originally posted by fled:
Andy, they are there you just cant see them, (like all the other Wiltshaire sites, they outsource the mobile cameras - and folks say this isnt a buisness !!)
Phil

My understanding of speed cameras (mobile or fixed) is that they have to be clearly marked, am I wrong? In our local paper they actually give the locations of the mobile cameras for the week ahead.

I was a passenger on this stretch so had a good opportunity to spot these cameras. Many cars were still speeding, some maybe going 100+ considering the rate they went past us (we were on the legal limit) but we didn't see any camera flashes or are they using image enhancing equipment.

Cameras do have an effect but surely one of the biggest deterrents to speed and dangerous driving is the bobby in his patrol car cruising the roads and nicking them. People always seems to drive very sensibly when they are about. This costs real money though.

If we really cared about peoples safety we would do a lot more than just use a few cameras here and there.

You only have to read the members posts on this forum boasting about their car or motorbikes performance to know that people like to go fast.

It seems to me another part of the sustainable development question. If the true costs of motoring was actually paid by the motorist we might have a more sensible debate about the way forward.

Andy

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Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
Don't patronise me sonny, you have absolutely no idea from what you speak, innit.

well Fritz what are you talking about? How would the TVR incident not have happened in Germany?

Because in my manor anybody who wants to test run a 'Sports Car' and proves/shows they have both the maturity/money/and nouse does it on a private track e.g. The Ex RAF Base Gatow for instance down the road from here, and if the 'Salesman' has any bananas in his head he'd have naturally given the prospective customer plenty of previous greviance in respect of his Data Protected history like all vultures do !

Fritz Von It could have been a 'mate' ? Not to mention the 'Legal' insurance whils't test driving on a puibic highway, innit ?

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nouse

Fritz, I think that's the all important word. Anyone with a little doesn't try to unleash 400hp on a busy public road.

I reckon too mate .


Cheers,
Fritz Von Time for breakfast, innit