Speeding On The M4 In Wiltshire !!!!

Steve,

The law is an ass but it's there to ensure our safety nevertheless. A situation where everyone is breaking the law just because they don't like it must surely lead to one thing - anarchy.

Jon

Steve,
No-one is saying the law is perfect. I am for the vigorous enforcement of traffic legislation until that legislation is changed. If your addage about enough people breaking laws is taken as literal, do you realise what you are implying?

I agree with you re discretion re prosecution, but you have to have parameters to work within in the 1st place, or you would have anarchy.

Have we actually asked Wiltshire Police why they are targetting that stretch of road? In this age of media interest and the freedom of information, I am sure they would too readily tell you why...

I have done my job under both parites, and trust me neither will increase staff whilst they feel the public are being selfish and want to save cash. Something has to give. In this instance its the use of technology over staff.

The ironic thing is you pay for it one way or the other - revenue from speeding offences, or more council tax for more police...

andy c!

quote:

I don't steal, commit murder, rape etc not because they are illegal but because they are wrong.

Speeding is wrong, you explain to a parent that their child has been killed because someone decided not to obey a speed limit.
FACT it takes longer to stop doing 40mph than it does at 30mph. A few yards could be all the difference in someone living or dying.

Regards
Clive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4439123.stm

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,15149-1565657,00.html

quote:

Under Department for Transport rules, camera partnerships can deploy mobile cameras only on stretches where there have been at least two collisions resulting in death or serious injuries per kilometre in the previous three years.

The Wiltshire partnership, which includes the police and the county council, will argue tomorrow that the casualty rate on the M4 is higher than on the average motorway and meets the level required by the department. There were 18 deaths, 69 serious injuries and 641 slight injuries between junctions 15 and 17 between 2001 and 2004.

I think that answers your question a little... but not totally...

quote:

Meanwhile Paul Smith, founder of the Road Safety campaign, has commented on recent statistics released by the Scottish Executive. Figures show a rise in speeding fines handed to drivers in Scotland of over 61% in a single year.

"If anyone ever needed proof that speed enforcement is not saving lives, this is it. Despite an increase of 61% in the number of speeding fines issued between 2002 and 2003 road deaths also rose over the same period. (from 304 to 331 - a rise of 9%)," commented Smith.

andy c!

quote:

Originally posted by Nigel Cavendish:
I admit that I drive at whatever speed I consider safe in all the circumstances. If I think I might be caught speeding, I observe the limits; if not I don’t. Simple. No excuses.

I agree, but with a couple of additions.

1. I don't speed in urban areas
2. If I do get booked for speeding I'll use any options available to me to wriggle out of the conviction.[/QUOTE]

quote:

How many of you brilliant drivers observe the 2 second rule? Not many I suspect because if you did you would find it virtually impossible to exceed any speed limit for any worthwhile period of time.

The roads up here must be a good bit quieter as it's quite straightforward to find places with little or no traffic. What I now find is that I don't speed often or by much in my car, but I do spend considerably more of the time over the speed limit when I'm on my motorbike.

quote:

Originally posted by cunningplan:
Speeding is wrong, you explain to a parent that their child has been killed because someone decided not to obey a speed limit.
FACT it takes longer to stop doing 40mph than it does at 30mph. A few yards could be all the difference in someone living or dying.

Regards
Clive

Nice soundbite,Clive !

How about:

Inappropriate speed is wrong, you explain to a parent that their child has been killed because someone decided to obey a speed limit.
FACT it takes longer to stop doing 30mph than it does at 20mph. A few yards could be all the difference in someone living or dying.

This assumption that travelling at the posted speed limit is safe, is what's keeping the death rate high. Sorry if you're all uncomfortable with that, but until that attitude changes, don't expect the death toll to change.

BOR

This

quote:

quote:
Meanwhile Paul Smith, founder of the Road Safety campaign, has commented on recent statistics released by the Scottish Executive. Figures show a rise in speeding fines handed to drivers in Scotland of over 61% in a single year.

"If anyone ever needed proof that speed enforcement is not saving lives, this is it. Despite an increase of 61% in the number of speeding fines issued between 2002 and 2003 road deaths also rose over the same period. (from 304 to 331 - a rise of 9%)," commented Smith.

is a classic bit of utter piffle.

'Road deaths increased enormously between 1935 and 2005 despite the introduction of seatbelts, safety glass, crumple zones, airbags, ABS, radial tyres, streetlights, road signs and the complusory driving test. Something must be done!'

Bruce

quote:

This assumption that travelling at the posted speed limit is safe, is what's keeping the death rate high. Sorry if you're all uncomfortable with that, but until that attitude changes, don't expect the death toll to change.

I implied this about two pages back LOL.

still a good point well put tho.

andy c!

I have it on good authority that more souls were killed in London during the War years through cdrazy driving than those actually killed by German bombing, don't take my word for it, check it out, innit.

Fritz Von Quite horrendous stats:

P.S. An old friend of mine (now deceased) worked as a fireman in Berlin throughout the War up to the early 60's, and it seemingly wasn't too much different here either, though more horses involved.

Yes, Andy, I saw that. It was an homage.

Brian

Hi Brian,
that made me smile LOL

at least someone acknowledges my posts....

andy c!

One does wonder of course that if the powers that be (can hardly expect the police to deal with it all) enforced the rules regarding clapped out bangers being on the highways, as well as Mickey Mouse MOT's that aren't worth the paper they're scribbled on most of the time, speeding resulting in cars losing control (or simply falling apart) might bve reduced somewhat ?

Fritz Von On rarely see's serious bangers over here, the odd rusted rover maybe, but not with German plates

Bruce I think it's fair to say that your analogy is absurd. I'm pretty sure that there were no significant safety advances between 2002 and 2003.

Government policy is to increase robotic rule enforcement on a generally law abiding population. This will end up being counter productive. The recent changes in road tax renewal are a good example, now if you let your tax expire you get fined, even if your car has been nowhere near the road. If you simply don't have insurance, tax or MOT you're still no more likely to get caught. And it seems that Government IT is competent enough to issue fines but not competent enough to allow online renewal of tax, you have to go queue in the post office.

Paul

It is equally absurd (or deliberately misleading) to compare two sets of unrelated figures without including all the other factors which have also changed in the intervening time. Such as the increase in traffic from one year to the next. The proportion of accidents resulting in fatality vs injury. The major roadworks that created havoc for half a year... etc etc.

The first statement (that speeding fines have increased), can simply not be related to the second (that deaths have increased) as pure cause and effect.

Bruce

A friend just sent me a link to a telegraph article about a new speed camera which has been approved on the A12 despite appearing not to have met the home office guidelines.

Anyone else read about the proposal to remove traffic restriction, pedestrian crossings etc etc from the around the 'Museums' area in London? Apparently a similar idea reduced pedestrian casualties in Holland and improved traffic flow. The idea is that by removing all the rigid control the vehicles and pedestrians are encouraged to interact more reponsibly. Interesting.

Bruce

quote:

'Road deaths increased enormously between 1935 and 2005 despite the introduction of seatbelts, safety glass, crumple zones, airbags, ABS, radial tyres, streetlights, road signs and the complusory driving test. Something must be done!'

Between 1935 and 2005 there has been a huge increase in the number of vehicles on our roads so an increase in collisions is therefore inevitable.

However, between 1965 and 1995 the annual death rate fell from 6000 to 3500 despite traffic levels more than doubling.

For the last ten years we've seen a massive increase in drivers being caught and penalised for speeding by mobile and fixed-site cameras and yet this steady decline in road deaths over thirty years has ground to a halt.

As you say - something must be done!

Mick,

I've been driving a taxi for ten years. In that time I've received only one complaint for excessive speed. Back in 1997 some woman (whom I later found out had just come out of a mental hospital) phoned our base to complain about me doing 48 in a 40 zone.

I tend to drive more slowly when I've got passengers on board.

Don't worry Mick, I'll be the only person on the taxi rank and if you attempt to get in my car I'll just drive off as though I'd been sent on another job. The walk will do you good you bigoted fool!

See how I'm thinking about your best interests.

Steve

I'll assume your apparent prejudice against those with mental illness is a result of careless posting.

If not, your post realy pi@@es me off.

quote:

Steve

I'll assume your apparent prejudice against those with mental illness is a result of careless posting.

If not, your post realy pi@@es me off.

Quite right Bruce and he's got the nerve to call Mick a Bigot!

Regards
Clive

It wasn't careless posting and I wasn't being prejudiced either.

The point being made is that if the passenger was suffering from some kind of neurosis following a nervous breakdown it was perhaps not beyond the bounds of possibility that they blew the risk associated with driving at 48 in a 40 more than slightly out of proportion.

I'm no expert on such matters but I await your candid and professional opinion on the conclusion I reached at that time.

Edited to add:

At no time either immediately prior to or during the journey did the passenger communicate to me that they were nervous about speed.

A number of passengers over the years have requested that I drive slowly and I always oblige - especially if they've been involved in accidents as passengers and are nervous about being in cars as a result.

'tis a great shame Durham's Chief Constable isn't in charge of speed monitoring for the whole country as his comments and attitude make refreshing reading:

Durham Speed Cameras

Matt.

Interesting, though without saying the obvious regarding Pink Panther country and Durham, I feel like many today that Chief Constables are going very often well out of their remitt in regards to talking to the press etc, and one wonders where their Political masters are lying, and wether they'll expect to 'Voluntarily' take early retirement or not, as has heppened in the recent past, much to the detriment of local Communities in losing such well earned experience at the whim and a drop of a hat of some un-elected Whitehall bodd² ?

Fritz Von Nice read though, bet yer can buy those camera's cheap in Swindon Market !!!

Matt,
That makes good reading, and refreshing common sense. He also has at his disposal a 'blue chip' traffic dept which is very pro-active in enforcement of bad driving offences.

The downside is something elsewhere will be having to give in order to do this...

andy c!

quote:

The first statement (that speeding fines have increased), can simply not be related to the second (that deaths have increased) as pure cause and effect.

True enough.

Except that for some years now in the UK as a whole speeding fines have substantially increased, careless and dangerous driving convictions have declined, and road deaths are up. Given that there is an obvious mechanism for the connection the hypothesis you ridiculed actually seems quite reasonable. Refutation usually appears at the 'how would you feel if your child was killed...' base level rather than the rational.

Paul

I've used none of the emotional arguments. I've provided a link in a previous post to some more rational data which tries to approach the issue in a more objective and scientific way.

I agree it is far from conclusive, but the weight of evidence appears to favour a positive safety effect rather than not. Read it and make your mind up.

Bruce