Speeding On The M4 In Wiltshire !!!!

While it's possible (perhaps even probable) that fixed speed cameras do themselves provide local safety benefits the real problem is the reliance on them as the primary enforcement measure for traffic violations.

The very fact that speeding convictions are up while those for careless/dangerous etc. have declined is scary and a clear condemnation of traffic cameras as the primary enforcement measure (not a condemnation of cameras themselves as obviously they are a useful tool). I've not personally noticed any general improvement in driving standards, or in the number of cars on the roads so I'm going to assume that there is still just as much bad/dangerous driving going on now as there was before the introduction of cameras. Certainly I see careless and dangerous driving on a daily basis (including an accident this morning) however the majority of that seems to be taking place within the speed limit - or if a speed limit is being broken it's usually an urban one.

P.S. on the subject of taxis and taxi-driver - on those few occasions when I'm driving home from town late at night I usually get passed (or tailgated) by a stream of taxis driving over the 30 or 40mph speed limits. I don't usually get passed by anyone else (although I have been passed once by a double decker bus while I was travelling at the 30mph speed limit!).

I've been in taxis on occasions when they've broken the urban speed limits and when that's happened I've informed the driver that I was in no hurry and asked them to slow down. In all cases they've complied.

RE the policing of driving manner, that entirely depends on what objectives the individual officers are set, and how they are told to prioritise their day.

This is a fact, trust me

andy c!

quote:

It is equally absurd (or deliberately misleading) to compare two sets of unrelated figures without including all the other factors which have also changed in the intervening time.

you mean like the argument that 'safety' cameras save lives because there was a fatal accident on a particular road the year before one was installed and no fatal accident the year after?

quote:

I've been in taxis on occasions when they've broken the urban speed limits and when that's happened I've informed the driver that I was in no hurry and asked them to slow down. In all cases they've complied.

This is perfectly reasonable and explains why every driver complied with your wishes.

The fact that 8 years ago a woman made a complaint about me doing 48 in a 40 was ever so slightly malicious in my view because she said nothing to me at the time.

It was her own daughter who told me about her mental illness. She obviousy felt it to be relevant by way of attempting to mitigate such malice/irrational behaviour.

quote:

Originally posted by Nime:
I loved the idea of painting the cameras bright yellow so illegal speeders could slow down in time not to be caught! Tee hee!

Well, the point of that is that if the camera is placed in an accident black spot then drivers see it, slow down and don't have an accident.

Lets assume there's a young lad or lass crossing the road where cars sometime speed. You could have a hidden camera which flashes the speeding car just before it ploughs into the pedestrian or you could have a visible one which the driver sees, slows down and thereby avoids the accident.

The logic here is that any speed camera that takes a picture has failed because it hasn't slowed cars down thereby improving road safety. Or, to put it another way, the most successful speed camera is one that never goes off.

Matt.

To add:

Painting cameras a bright yellow is akin to giving these automated police enforcement devices a uniform.

Generally, police officers (the human variety) wear uniforms so that they are clearly identifiable. In the UK they also wear bright yellow reflective jackets when out on foot after dark.

Police patrol vehicles are also marked in a similar fashion so that the general public can identify their presence.

The reasons for doing so should be clear.

An obvious police presence should act to prevent crime rather than penalise it after its occurence.

I guess that under more totalitarian regimes police activity and presence is more covert.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Toy:
I guess that under more totalitarian regimes police activity and presence is more covert.

Blair's Britain.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt F:
Lets assume there's a young lad or lass crossing the road where cars sometime speed. You could have a hidden camera which flashes the speeding car just before it ploughs into the pedestrian or you could have a visible one which the driver sees, slows down and thereby avoids the accident.

The logic here is that any speed camera that takes a picture has failed because it hasn't slowed cars down thereby improving road safety. Or, to put it another way, the most successful speed camera is one that never goes off.

Matt.

Given the propensity to hide cameras it rather nails the Camera Safety Partnership claim that they are there to reduce accidents.

"a recent EU report held up as one of the safest motorways in the country"
http://www.m4protest.org/
right on
Martin

quote:

Originally posted by Martin D:
"a recent EU report held up as one of the safest motorways in the country"
http://www.m4protest.org/
right on

There is much to agree with there, but the bit implying that it's ok for someone doing 37mph in a 30mph zone is stupid.

err didnt see that bit, further reading needed, but i would agree with you steve on that one
Martin

another bad accident on the M4 j15 to 14. Seems the speed enforcement is haveing an effect !!!!
Adverse effect of course.
I wonder if anyone is keeping the stats before and after, I doubt it somehow, even if they do it will be twisted and spun into a success. THese politians and civil servants are the real criminals in this country.

Interesting article in The Times recently that indicated that all road improvement schemes had to have the lost revenue to the exchequer included in the cost side of the financial equation to determine whether to improve the road. The loss of revenue? - the reduction in fuel tax because the vehicles are not standing in traffic queues burning exessively taxed fuel

So that is why Steven (The taxi) Toy is made to wait at traffic lights at night - it is so that he will burn more fuel

and perhaps why the Hindhead bypass has been delayed for another two years so that all vehicles travelling between 7am and 11 am and 3pm and 7pm can spend an additional 30 minutes pouring out out noxious fumes onto an area of outstanding beauty. The stated reason was that it was not a National requirement and only a regional one. So remember that when you are driving back to London from the ferry at Portsmouth

So much for Kyoto!

And as for the famous traffic jams of Salisbury......

Driving to work this morning along the m4 bristol to bath section and all of a sudden down to 40 through the roadworks, folks were jamming on there brakes in panic not to exceed such a low limit, concequece.... a bump in front of me and lots of swearing, no real delay but it did cross my mind that 40 is soooooooooo slow from even 70. A few miles later in another roadwork and yep speed cameras for 50 this time then on to Swindon in the speed camera zone of 70. What a bunch of tossers our highway agency/transport folks are. WE go from 40 to 50 to 70 along the same stretch of motorway, and this isnt done to catch you out , no of course not

quote:

Originally posted by Derek Wright:
all road improvement schemes had to have the lost revenue to the exchequer included in the cost side of the financial equation to determine whether to improve the road

Is this serious???

I think we have to be a bit careful in criticising temporary speed limits at roadworks, however low. It is, after all, a place where people will be working in close proximity to the carriageway.

Just mentioned on the lunchtime news that a speed camera overseeing roadworks in East Sussex has chalked up a keen £750,000 in the last few months, nice work if yer can get it, innit ?

Fritz Von I bet the camera's are leased too ?

quote:

Originally posted by fled:
Driving to work this morning along the m4 bristol to bath section and all of a sudden down to 40 through the roadworks, folks were jamming on there brakes in panic not to exceed such a low limit, concequece.... a bump in front of me and lots of swearing, no real delay but it did cross my mind that 40 is soooooooooo slow from even 70. A few miles later in another roadwork and yep speed cameras for 50 this time then on to Swindon in the speed camera zone of 70. What a bunch of tossers our highway agency/transport folks are. WE go from 40 to 50 to 70 along the same stretch of motorway, and this isnt done to catch you out , no of course not

This switching of speed limits at a moments notice reminds me of my many drives from West Berlin through the old GDR to West Germany, a trip of between 3-4 hours (depending on time & weather) which I did around a 100 times give or take a few, & taking both directions into consideration. The VOPPO's (People's Police) would suddenly appear from nowhere and stop yer for speeding, normally having absolutely no way out of paying their fines (in DM's). This rather dangerous practice in a safety conscious land (0 % alcohol tollerance for instance) was really a pain in the arse, and they had it off to a tee, raking in millions no doubt from all and sundrie over the years ?

Fritz Von The old idea's are seemingly the best one's innit !!!

MichaelC

It was in the Times the other week - and no it wasnot 1st of April

I have not been able to find a link to it oon the Times web site as it is more than 7 days old

quote:

Originally posted by fled:
Driving to work this morning along the m4 bristol to bath section and all of a sudden down to 40 through the roadworks, folks were jamming on there brakes in panic not to exceed such a low limit, concequece.... a bump in front of me and lots of swearing, no real delay but it did cross my mind that 40 is soooooooooo slow from even 70. A few miles later in another roadwork and yep speed cameras for 50 this time then on to Swindon in the speed camera zone of 70. What a bunch of tossers our highway agency/transport folks are. WE go from 40 to 50 to 70 along the same stretch of motorway, and this isnt done to catch you out , no of course not

"folks were jamming on there brakes in panic"

Sorry but if they were driving a safe distance apart then panic braking would not be an issue.

Also, in my experience, reductions in speed limits due to roadworks are signposted well in advance e.g. 40 mph in 3 miles, 2 miles, 1 mile 800 yards, 600 yards etc.

Bad driving , no question.

Nigel.
I agree "Bad driving" its "bad driving" that lead to accidents NOT the speed.
How many times have you seen a shunt in roadworks ? happens all the time because folks concentration drifts to other things ?
Unfortunatly you cant legistrate for that ? but what you can do is raise revenue by catching people out with speed cameras !!
My point is WHY 40mph where every other speed limit through motorway raodworks is 50 ?
What so special about this roadwork ? Nothing is the answer its just yet another ploy to catch you out and fund the roadworks.
Phil

quote:

I guess that under more totalitarian regimes police activity and presence is more covert.

I think you need to use a combination of both, and it depends what you need to be overt for?

Re driving, you go overt for a while on the target road, then go covert to see if motoring standards have changed. If not, guess what happens.

I have dealt with countless crashes, all resulting in no injury to fatalities. You do need to try telling a next of kin about their loved ones being injured or worse to put some of what is beng said here into perspective.

Revenue is one thing. Responsibility is another, and accepting it for your actions is what counts. The laws relating to due care are preventative, steve, in that you don't need a result to get done for due care/dangerous (you do for driving w/out reasonable consideration). Some People don't drive responsibly, within limits/not too close/ concentrate on what is happening. The end result is obvious.

Re Enforcement/prevention/whatever you want to call it, you get what you pay for. Literally.

andy c!

Oh you mean like the long term British Police´game of chasing speeding joy riders etc to the limit causing fatalities abound, if you think this is correct then all of the other idea's regarding normal drivers opinions on this subject to my mind go completely out of the logic window, innit.

Fritz Von The figures are no doubt there, and no I'm not blaming the cops

P.S. It may be my imagination ! but one thing that I noticed early on when living here, is that when Fire /ambuilance/ or Police are on a Blue Light emergency run, they seem to seriously slow down at lights, etc, and make people very aware of their presence, I'd be interested to see comparisons between accidents occurring on these runs (as even more tragic as they are) many can be avoided. Having driven often in LOndon etc in the past, I'm aware that services speed like the wind, or am I wrong here ?

Fritz Von Barring BR & The Tube that is

Fritz,


andy c!

On the subject of police drivers I would have to say that the two worst dangerous driving incidents I've observed in the last year or so were both by the drivers of marked police cars.