A suggestion for Naim-audio re. interconnects.

S'ok Minky, just that someone mentioned masturbation. I'm not foaming at the mouth or anything... Or anywhere else



Regards,

Steve.

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I think I know what you'd do...

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I haven't touched my system for months other than to play music on it or occasionally dust it.

An XPS will be next for me as well as another shelf to park it on. My i/cs are already sorted thanks.



Regards,

Steve.

tears in the chardonnay. Classic, well done Minky! I needed a good laugh.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Ross: I've heard tell of those Cardas contraptions (an rca-to-din converter, I presume). Have you any more details on them? How much are they? Do they sound any good, or do they muck it all up?

And the rest of you lot: the overwhelming majority of hifi owners do NOT own Naim systems. They are not likely to convert entire systems to Naim, at least not all at one go. It's bloody expensive to do that. But these folks read the rags, where Naim cd players in particular get spectacular reviews (usually in the context of a non-Naim system.) So they buy a Naim cd player. Nowadays they can just plug in a standard phono interconnect and be done with it - except the din output probably sounds better. Some of the more inquisitive/obsessive (your choice!) among them will then go looking for a way to make this very expensive cd player sound even better, without breaking the bank. Why do you have a problem with that? (Just in case you haven't been able to figure this out for yourselves, I have little use for religion.)

Does Naim actually specify the Chord Chrysalis or Cobra 2 as the recommended cable for use with non-Naim preamps? I know Naim USA stocks those two cables, so Naim dealers in the US take that as the recommendation. What about the rest of the world?

Andrew, old buddy old pal, the CDS3 isn't going anywhere. And at this very moment I'm giving a 252 a listen for a couple of days - it would solve one cable problem, while raising another. So far it's clearly better than the 52 I used to have (well, duh!), and seems to get along with the ATC active 50s better than the 52 did -which is why I turned to the ATC preamp in the first place. We'll see. Lots of money involved...

Why NAIM ?
I think it’s the DEALERs job to provide his customers with the optimal cables, I/Cs, etc. He knows (or should know) the rest of your system, so he can at least help and try the best I/Cs to give you the best result. This should apply all ways: No-NAIM sources to Naim systems or vice versa.
Of course NAIM may provide some guidance, but they can only be responsible for their complete systems, not for the hundreds of options with other brands.
And since your dealer just collected – or is about to do so – a couple of thousand dollars for NAIM gear from you, he may well take the business risk of giving you a choice of cables to try. What I mean, is that he provides you with a choice of I/Cs – of which at the end you buy one: the one YOU like; the rest goes back to him, at his risk !
This was the experience I had with dealers here in Switzerland, one of which not only had NAIM, but also stocked Wilson Benesch. As he was about to sell me a no-Naim Power-amp, he experimented with a selection of I/Cs, which we tried at my home. Sadly this dealer discontinued both NAIM and WB; So I swapped dealer, who incidentally also gives the same excellent service.

Urs

Switzerland

Jim wrote:

"RSH is asking a straightforward question: where can he obtain a great-sounding (ie, better than Chord Chrysalis or Cobra2) interconnect to use with a Naim CDX feeding a non-Naim preamp?"

I recall reading on another forum a post from an engineer. He had tinkered making his own preamps and amps for a number of years and came to the conclusion that possibly the most important thing in designing the kit - and the system as a whole - was the matching of each piece to the others. Impedance matching is critical as was the matching other parameters both within and between components. A delicate balance he called it.

So while the original question may seem straightforward, the lack of specifying a particular preamp precludes a single answer to the question.

Perhaps the universe of non-Naim preamps can be conveniently divided into two or three categories - those requiring high v. low on this parameter, etc. I don't know. Or perhaps there are a handful of non-Naim preamps that seem popular to use with Naim CD players such that the best cable can be found for each.

Of course, someone who chooses non-Naim amplification may well be after a sound different than the Naim sound, so Naim trying to guess at the desires of this diverse clientele seems risky at best.

And, finally, Naim are not alone here at all. ANY CD player that is of a different make than the preamp will have to be uniquely matched with a cable. The DIN->RCA issue is a red herring really.

And many manufacturers are not even clear about what cables should be used when their own CD player is used with their preamp!!! Leaving the customer to audition the myrid possibilities and choose the cable that "best suits the listening room or personal preference". This gets worse when the combinations of cables between pre and amp and the speaker wires are also considered.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Well, this thread has been around the block and back. So no apologies for lifting big chunks from my first contribution in the top half of page one....

Interconnects !!!!!

.....you want Paul S to listen to....... and evaluate....... ALL the cables under the sun in 0.5m/1.0m/1.5m/2.0m....lengths........

Try asking your dealer....... for cable recommendations to suit a Naim front end.

Next time you audition a new piece of kit, (eg a Krell FPB 300 on the back end of a 552) make sure the cables are treated as an integral part of the kit.

On the other hand.....If all of Naim's dealers sent the results of any trials to HQ for correlation, then Naim might be able to build a useful database at little cost ?????????



Cheers

Don

RSH hit the nail on the head in his post just above. Those of us in the US cannot rely on our Naim dealers to give us the sort of advice that some of you in the UK are fortunate to receive from your dealers. My own local Naim shop (and it's the only one within a three hour drive, typical of the US) while a wonderful place for Naim-specific advice, is not the place to go for cable advice. They're not experienced at it, and they're not interested in becoming so. RSH has reported his frustrations when calling around to other Naim dealers in the US.

Naim knows the parameters that are important for matching the cable to the cd player. Naim also has some strong opinions regarding the connectors too. Seems to me they'd be reasonably well positioned to produce a cable that has a fair shot at doing the job well. It would be helpful for all concerned - buyers and dealers - if there was some more specific advice that could be offered those who are adding a Naim cd player or tuner to their existing system. Even if the advice is limited to a list of cables that have worked reasonably well in the past. Enough users have reported dissatisfaction with the Cobra 2 generally supplied in the US to make everyone concerned take another look at the situation.

There are Naim dealers out there who like other lines of electronics too, and will mix Naim sources in with non-Naim systems. That requires taking the time to listen to the combinations and permutations. Some dealers are up for doing that. Others aren't. If you're in the US, and you have ONE Naim dealer available to you, well... That's why people post to this forum. And why responses from Frank Abela and others experienced in the madness of system matching are appreciated.

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Your 600W behemoth is obviously causing severe intermodulation distortion in your CDX. I'm sure Laurie S will back me up here: you need a spur!

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Or an Isotek Qube - the biggest they've got to plug your power amp into.



Regards,

Steve.

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Originally posted by RSH:
Now for the commment by Minky or Micky or whatever your name is. So when were you able to travel in time to suggest my system sounds like shite. Please if you are going to use a bad word than at least spell it right. My system is extremely good and I don't really feel the need to prove it here to anyone.

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Wow RSH that was a really long post. I hope you remembered to breathe while you were writing it

The chapter of your novella that I quoted contains a few errors :

1) You took my post seriously. NO ONE TAKES ME SERIOUSLY AND GETS AWAY WITH IT. None of what I said was true. I can't see how you could have thought I was being serious.

2) You seem to have mixed up two of Einstein's favorite things : SPACE and TIME. To know that your system is shite I would have to travel through SPACE and although I grant you that this would take SOME time, this is not the same as travelling THROUGH time.

3) The word "shite" is spelt s-h-i-t-e. Maybe one of the spinoffs of being a Naim owner will be an understanding that there are other cultures outside the good old US of A.

[This message was edited by Minky on TUESDAY 09 September 2003 at 03:31.]

I agree with Minky, stinky, binky.

I note also RSH is from Beaverton Oregon.

Well the only thing that ever came out of there of any use was Nike, but everyone stopped wearing those (for their original purpose at least, running) years ago.

Maybe some shoelaces off some of those gray and blue tailwinds c.1978 would make good interconnect between your ol boxes yankee boy?

Yours with usual malice.

Jono.

[This message was edited by Richard Dane on TUESDAY 09 September 2003 at 10:12.]

Robert (RSH) another PT awaits your perusal!



Regards,

Steve.

Hey Steven, stop being mischievous. I didn't say that stuff about Americans. That was very, very naughty of you. "They won't need this" ? What do you think this is, the United fricken nations security council forum ? As for "Vermin". Naim sells a fair bit of gear in NZ as well. Will your post be moderated ?

Right thats it!!!!

This is going straight to Michael Moore.

Since when does being American grant you automatic immunity from being wrong?

Pull your head in Stephen or your'e next.

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Will your post be moderated ?

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I asked for it to be so. Go figure...

The (buying) population in NZ compared to in US????

I take it there are a lot of real sheep buying Naim in your part of the world.



Regards,

Steve.

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I will never understand how anyone could get bent out of shape over someones choice interconnects or a mixed system. I firmly believe there is way more music to be enjoyed from a naim source than the mid-level Naim electronics will allow.

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It is a distinct possibility, and the Naim CDX does sound rather good chez Toy even if I say so myself

I could get meself some midrange Naim amps and they'd sound really good too, but I'd rather save my money for an XPS and beyond at the Naim source.



Regards,

Steve.

FLIPID

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Originally posted by Minky:
3) The word "shite" is spelt s-h-i-t-e. Maybe one of the spinoffs of being a Naim owner will be an understanding that there are other cultures outside the good old US of A.

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Minky, have a little consideration for a guy who, in his first post on this thread, invents the word "flipid" (for lack of the word flippant).

Also keep in mind RSH appears to be a friend of Mr Toy's. Usually these are very sensitive guys.

Compliments BTW for Toy's brilliant plan to report a couple of posts / posters to the moderators. We are adult people, obviously, so we need help.

Are we still on, Minky?

Herman

c'mon guys!

For goodness sake, can we please get back to the subject at hand and not reduce this discussion back to a hi-fi level everytime?

I dunno, I ask you, huh? flippin eck, cor.

"We are adult people, obviously, so we need help." Herm.

Behaving like adults should not equate to recourse to discrimination and invective against forum members on the basis of national origin. Not even those who hail from a country with more sheep than humans. Baaaaaah!

Great potential market for Naim in NZ all things considered. Baaah!



Regards,

Steve.

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Originally posted by herm:
Are we still on, Minky?

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Herman, you've got a nerve sashaying up to me after two weeks driving round Andalucia listening to classical music with that hussy. Debussy Deshmoosy

Just joking Sure we are still on my little honeypuff. I'm thinking a white wedding. I've seen a gown that you are going to just die for ! Let's keep it small and intimate. A thousand guests max. I can see it now : The Krug fountain, the Beluga mountain, the flaming truffle jugglers. Should we book the LSO or slipknot ? Would an outer-space honeymoon be too much ? I've heard that Neptune is beautiful in Spring.

Oh Hermy, we is going to be SOOOO happy

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Not even those who hail from a country with more sheep than humans. Baaaaaah!

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What does Marco have to do with any of this?

the Latest from Wales

PR: "What has happened to Marco?"

From what I've heard from Welsh Farmer's Radio News (one of my faves), he unwittingly started turning back into a horse, and being halfway now, he's neither here nor there.

[I believe in the current context I'm obliged to paste in a smiley, as an indicator of fun, humor and good will all around, so here goes ]

Herman

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Originally posted by alexgerrard:
That should please you both.

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If that really hot blonde second-violinist (about four desks up) is in the orchestra I would be particularly pleased, so I'm giving the green light on this part of the wedding.

The rest, I don't know.

Herman

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For goodness sake, can we please get back to the subject at hand and not reduce this discussion back to a hi-fi level everytime?

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Jono, not like you to be so serious - you've hit the nail on the head. all this talk about cables and tonality matching are most always from folks listening to hifi, missing out on the music. Just humour them, they'll eventually buy nordost and then come back from time to time and swear you're all missing the point.

Steven - are you having trouble with the idea that sheep in NZ are sufficiently well-heeled to run Naim systems, or that they are fed exclusively on real grass, roaming around happily on hundreds upon thousands of lush, green, fertile acres - a quality of life you could but dream of.

"muuhhhhhhhaaahhhhhhhhhhh" said flossy, hiting the Flash for the next track distractedly.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

I'm getting a bit confused here. Do interconnects really have a "sound" of their own? Aren't the sound primarily dependent on the compenents between which it is connected, impedance matching etc?