CD5/Nait5 at audition

I listend to a CD5 a couple of weeks ago in my second system and didnt like it either.

In comparison the Densen Beat 400 sounded superb

Thanks Bosh !

I was never listened cd 3 or 3.5. Is they better than cd5?
I was affraid that cd 5 is not from same story.
Is it soemething (worse) new?
Like to hear more.

Ozren

I was post a question about a month ago and ask should I buy Nait 5 or CD 5 and upgrade my Arcam Alpha 8cd/Nait2. Everyone said buy CD 5. I think the same. Nait 2 is miles better than Nait 5. It is true. I got them both at home now and still can't believe. On other side my Arcam cd is a lot more musical sounding than CD5. CD5 is anemic and confused, but the music flows so easy from it. The sound is too forward and foced. I can write about it a lot, but let's say simply, I can't enjoy with CD5, it simply don't give "something" which gives me Nait 2.
What's wrong?

Ozren

Hi Ozren,

I think that the combination would have sounded very different from your Arcam/Nait. I have found Arcams to be far warmer in sound. When I first heard a CD3.5 with Naim amps it sounded really bright and a bit much over a long listening session. However over time as I have more bits of a Naim system I have become far more inclined towards this type of presentation. When I recently tried a 3.5 again it sounded fantastic!

My set up has changed alot since last time with new racks, proper cabling, and better speaker stands this may have helped.

I tried a friends Arcam recently and fell asleep!

So

1) you've already found a balance that suits you and you could maximise this - better Arcam etc

2) You need a longer demo and time for things to settle in. You may find that longer term listening changes your decision

3)Maybe your dealer could loan you some different racks etc which may help in both cases (I haven't read your profile yet so this may not be relevent!)

It may be the more experienced on the forum can help more than me, if you can describe what you feel your system is lacking or what you want from it longer term.

Hope I've been of some help.

Good luck
Martin

easy is as easy does

Hi Ozren,

though few would agree with your assessments here (it's a Naim club after all) it looks like this demo solved a lot of your problems.

You don't like the CD5, and even though your description would have rung more bells if the Arcam was the thin one and the CD5 the musical one, it's your ears you dealing with.

So you can stop your quest and start being happy with what you have (though it's kind of puzzling why you started on the quest to begin with).

You could try and get a Alpha 9 CDplayer as an upgrade of the 8. Alpha 9 is supposed to be the best Arcam CDP. They retired it when the FMJ came, but there may be a few around yet in your neck of the woods.

Herman

Thanks Herm.
My dealer can order for me an Arcam Alpha 9 upgrade board.
Did anyone heard Alpha 9? Is it much better than Alpha ?

Thanks again.

Ozren

Put on a face

And stop worrying. We shouldn't even be talking about this, certainly not in this place.

Alpha 9 is the best CDPlayer Arcam made, and a terrific bang for your buck. The DAC is a class better than in the Alpha 8. The more recent 92 is a step back, and the FMJ CDplayer is not better than the 9.

So you're all set. End of story.

Herman

Well thanks, but I know that already.
What I ask is the is Alpha 9 much better than 8.

Ozren

Ozren!
I don´t get this. The sound I get from my cd 3 is just the opposite of what you are hearing.
I have a varm, involving and musical presentation.
I doubt if the ´5 is a lesser model than the ´3 series. On the contrary it is/should be, even better. This must be a setup problem or perhaps a mismatch with speakers.

Try again with other speakers??

Good luck!
Gunnar

Gunnar and Barryr !

Cd 5 is constantly on for one week and I play it every day for 5-6 hours, after that I leave it to play burn in signal.
Gunnar, CD 5 is not CD 3. Other people tells me.
You should listen to it. CD 3 was made when Julian was alive, 5 not. It seems like Naim lost a good ear.
What and how much are goods after good burn in of this product?

Ozren

Tazz...

Yes, I can say. Everything is transparent, but not well defined, very dry sounding as I said.
Cd 5 just play wrong. He let music out of him with ease, but it just don't do fine. With Arcam I am more involved in music. Cd 5 plays some elements better and is more concrete sounding than Arcam, but Arcam gives me much more music.
I don't know what to say, I try to change evwerything inc. speakers, stands, but always the same s..t.
I am deeply dissapointed, maybe CDX is much better and warmer.

Ozren

"CD 3 was made when Julian was alive, 5 not. It seems like Naim lost a good ear."

I have to say that I think the statement above is total rubbish.

1)Roy George (not Julian Vereker) developed both the CD3 and CD5.

2) The CD5 is more musical, less harsh and better controlled than the cd3 IMO. From my listening experiences the CD5 is a more rewarding and involving all round performer.

Agreed and correct, Simon. The CD5 is in the same class as the CD3, but marginally better, and marginally different. There is a little more of Round Earth in this player than before, perhaps.

Nonetheless Ozren doesn't like it, so this thread is bound to spin in circles if we keep telling him Naim makes better CDPlayers than Arcam. No question about it. But Ozren thinks differently. That should not be a problem. In fact, for him, it's a solution.

Herman

magazines

Naim has always been superlatively reviewed. Reviewers don't use Naim as reference material, though, because of its characteric sound. You need a kind of neutrality for pluggin' all those new cdps, speakers, and what have you... And of course yhey're always yapping about the din plugs.

BTW, virtually all half decent equipment gets great reviews, haven't you noticed, Tazz? There's no such thing as a bad audio review. Audio mags seem to use some kind of paper that just isn't fit to print those on. The ink doesn't hold or somthing...

Guys don't talk such a load of crap.

Why do you think the likes of B&W and Sony and such and such get favorable reviews all the time? The quality of the product?

Noticed how much advirtising they take out?

Do you people really truely believe all these reviewer peoples pay ful price for there own choice of equipment.

Get real.

Oh guys, for god sake...
wish you are now in my room and hear what I hear.
CD 5 is AAANNNEEEMMMIIICCC and I don't want that,
I believe in Naim, but what is that. I have lost those Arcam centre when listened to CD5. CD5 is sound of higher class, but not so much.
Will anybody finally tells me will this "shortcommings" dissapear after adecvate burn in period "few weeks for example"?
Don't get me wrong, I want CD5, my wife like how it looks so much (me too), but where is harmony. I can hear more with it, but it is like monitoring not musical enjoyment. My two friends which knows much about sound said same.
I would like to know some useful things about CDX, how is better than CD5 and is it REALLY worth twice to pay?
Thanks all of you for your advices, but few more on this would be nice from you. Can someone said something and turn me on CD5?
Ozren

wow, interesting. After all these posts, did I miss someone asking what Interconnects, Speaker Cable, and Speakers you were using?

You have at least Identified that a Nait 2 is for you. What I can't figure out, is why you were listening to the Nait 5 anyway - if you were looking only for a source to front your current system.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Hi Ozren,

stop asking us to pour words into your ears. Only if the CD5 you got is at fault should you reconsider. But it looks like you prefer the mix of Arcam CD and Naim amplification.

There's nothing wrong with that.

In fact it's excellent, because it's simple. Upgrade to Alpha 9 and you're set for a long time. What more could you wish for?

Just trust your own ears and take it easy.

Herman

PS: Rico: the cables stuff is of course ceteris paribus: if Ozren likes the Arcam CD, but not the Naim CD, with the same cables, then we're looking at O's idea of what a CDP should sound like, rather than a problem with cables.

This is like your nightmare salesman of the year.

"Your best best is to suck it and see. If you haven't already committed your money to a CD5 and NAIT5, you should almost have the funds for a CDX"

Ya right. Ozren doesn't like the CD5, so let's get him to buy a CDP that's twice as expensive.*

And Rico: whatever happened to Source First? You don't like the sound of the CDP: it's gotta be the speaker cables?

Herman

*By the way, I have a CD5, and I'm getting a CDX. I'm all for it, but that's because I love the sound. It seems O doesn't. So why push him?

Ozren

Just about all you describe is the opposite to my experience. Either your CD player is defective in some way or you are expecting to hear something quite different from me. Most people who frequent this Forum will disagree with your comments - but - if you don't like it, you don't like it, and you should stop worrying about it.

Just as an afterthought - what speaker cable were you using? NACA5 makes such a difference.

Terry

quote:

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And Rico: whatever happened to Source First? You don't like the sound of the CDP: it's gotta be the speaker cables?

---

Herm, I think you've taken my posting completely out of context. I am not, and do not suggest - in this case - that speaker cables alone are responsible. But ensuring the goods are used as designed to be would go a fair way towards understanding if there's anything else wrong with the system. Oh, is it possible the speakers** were chosen to balance the gluggy imprecise bass quality of an [lower end] Arcam CD player, hence revealing a CD5 as dry and light? I thought not. These are the pitfalls that strong source-first system building avoids every time.

As for your response to James - CDX is not always sold to existing owners of Naim CD Players! It is a logical suggestion "try CDX". This at least will serve to eliminate Evil dry bass-light Naim CD players from his audition list once and for all.

Mind you, Ozren did point out that he wasn't in the market for a Nait 5. Which leads me back to my question: Why try the Nait 5 at home when you are auditioning for a source for your existing system? Introducing another element of imbalance won't really help, unless disatisfied with existing amplification. Synergy, I suspect, is foremost in the mind of our esteemed forum colleague.

I'm not suggesting that Ozren has cloth ears, or is wrong in that he doesn't like the combo in his system. Bad is bad, as others here have noted. What is at odds with many here who know and love the CD5 is its desciption as dry - this is often an indicator of something else being wrong. If those possibilities are eliminated - fine, you have a punter who just won't dig it.

At any rate, this is the most thread fun we've had here in ages!

Now all we need is a knob gag to spoil it all.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

**And godforbid, same with those tone-controling speaker cables.

Hi Rico,

glad you like this thread. You know (don't you?) I'm as much puzzled by Ozren's description of the sound as you are. However this may not be the cables or whatever, but a language issue.

Most people wouldn't use the word 'dry' when plugging in a Naim CDP in place of an Arcam CDP. So perhaps Ozren has a different association when he says 'dry'. You never know.

The only other option is his demo CD5 is f*cked.

And, yes, James, lord knows there's better Naim CDPs than the CD5, but there is a family resemblance. And especially since Ozren uses the unusual term 'dry' for the CD5, I'm willing to entertain the notion that he's more happy with a mixed set rather than an all Naim set. If he hears something he calls 'dry' then he shouldn't do it, no matter whether we think 'dry' doth not apply.

So what if someone else is happy with something you wouldn't be happy with? Personally I think that's one of the best things in life.

I guess I'm sometimes a little bugged by the way we think there's only one way: you start at the bottom, but invariably you need to get at the CDSII + 52 + 135s level, and as long as you're not there, we will tell you "march on little soldier, you'll feel better." (See the hilarious "what I've learned" thread.) A major part of the HiFi Corner could be renamed "Other People's Money."

But sure, demming a CDX would be an option, if only to check whether the CD5 wasn't queerbo. However if Ozren prefers to take the Arcam 9 CDP, I won't blame him. There's plenty of time (and CDPs) ahead.

Herman

...if this is offensive Ozren, but you did remove both transit bolts, didn't you? Removing just the one for the transport would probably produce the effect you describe.

Just a thought.

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

Tazz said:

quote:

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Remember Hi-Fi review back in the 80's,everything from Linn and Naim was recommended,you can't say
there was nothing going on their

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Perhaps Naim could comment on this? Probably not, but I doubt there was anything underhand.

Sure, if a magazine is written by people who love your products you'd advertise there too. The writers of Hi-Fi Review started off advocating Linn/Naim and the manufacturers reciprocated with advertising.

Magazines always the option of changing their allegences over time - like evolution. Hi-Fi Review saw this with EAR and Threshold products receiving favourable reviews near the end of its existance.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"

quote:

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A major part of the HiFi Corner could be renamed "Other People's Money."

---

Herm, that's brilliant.

Right about now we need a post from Pete, who's still rapt with his 3-series system, buying music, and not tempted to upgrade.

that, and a knob gag.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio