Rage Against The Machine for Christmas No1

quote:

HISTORY OF MODERN MUSIC

The Buisness of making music ---> The Music Business -----> Business.

That's it in a nutshell.

I wonder if it will improve. Not in my opinion via the major recording companies, but it is surprising what might happen through independant productions of inovative and talented groups via downloads ... at least in time.

The current situation seems to be very poor, IMO.

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by MilesSmiles:

quote:

Originally posted by Whizzkid:
Simon Cowells bank balance gets bigger, though contestents and winners go back to their day jobs, yep he sure is a genius at finding talent.

... but then there are as well (aside from Leona Lewis) ...



Kelly Clarkson - 2 Grammy's, 12 Billboard Music Awards

Carrie Underwood - 4 Grammy's, 14 Billboard Music Awards, 5 Country Music Awards, 5 American Music Awards

Jennifer Hudson - 1 Grammy, 1 Academy Award (Oscar), 1 Golden Globe

... and actually quite a few more with millions of albums sold.

You can add Westlife and Il Divo to the list too.

Let's not forget he had quite a successfull career prior to the Pop Idol X-Factor era too.

You have to see Pop Idol and X Factor for what they are. They aren't attempts to find serious artists, rather they are classic examples of Andy Warhol's '15 minutes of fame'. I don't think they pretend to be anything else

quote:

Originally posted by mongo:

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:
Traditional route = have talent, work hard, show some originality, maybe produce new material, create a following, get noticed by label, receive investment, have deserved success.

Cowells route = trawl through mass audition, stand as judge and jury over the shortlist, apply sledgehammer media exposure, public picks a winner, 15 minutes fame, back to Macdonalds 12 months later. This is not A & R as I understand it but something very different

It is Cowell who is devil incarnate in all this, he has too much power and it's this constant puking out of karaoke stars singing generic dross who then are held up as role models to the young and impressionable that isn't good for music. There's nothing wrong with talent shows but that isn't what X factor is - it's a cynical production line just like a turbo charged Stock Aitken Waterman was a few years ago.

IMO the RATM phenomenum is a brilliant way of drawing this whole debate into the open and in my personal experience as a father of impressional kids is making them ask the quetion - why do I buy into X factor, should I not be looking beyond the brainwashing every saturday night?

All IMO of course

Wonderful...you tell 'em!

Cheers, I felt much better to get that off my chest. I take it you have no opinion to share on this then?

Just off to make my kids listen to something I like.

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:
Traditional route = have talent, work hard, show some originality, maybe produce new material, create a following, get noticed by label, receive investment, have deserved success.

Cowells route = trawl through mass audition, stand as judge and jury over the shortlist, apply sledgehammer media exposure, public picks a winner, 15 minutes fame, back to Macdonalds 12 months later. This is not A & R as I understand it but something very different

No its not, but then neither is the process you describe in the 'traditional route'.

A&R is all about managing/connecting artists and repertoire (hence the term A&R) to (hopefully) create a hit record. Nothing more, nothing less.

Cheers, I felt much better to get that off my chest. I take it you have no opinion to share on this then?

Just off to make my kids listen to something I like.[/QUOTE]

My deal with my kids is when they ask for a download to their i-pod of 'High school musical' for example, I agree providing I put something on it too.....last time it was 'The Ramones' for a bit of mischief. Seems to work.

Reminds me of a story I heard the other year, A collegue of mine is sitting at home when in bursts his first born all agitated-
"Dad,Dad you must listen to this.. Pops in the Cd of...Dark side of the moon.
A new found respect for parent when the old man then goes and digs a vinyl copy of said music from an area that said teenager would not dare venture-his fathers music collection !

quote:

Originally posted by King Size:

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:
Traditional route = have talent, work hard, show some originality, maybe produce new material, create a following, get noticed by label, receive investment, have deserved success.

Cowells route = trawl through mass audition, stand as judge and jury over the shortlist, apply sledgehammer media exposure, public picks a winner, 15 minutes fame, back to Macdonalds 12 months later. This is not A & R as I understand it but something very different

No its not, but then neither is the process you describe in the 'traditional route'.

A&R is all about managing/connecting artists and repertoire (hence the term A&R) to (hopefully) create a hit record. Nothing more, nothing less.

In the 60's where singers were signed and then hooked up with songs written by Tin Pan Alley types I think that was true, and now with the X Factor/boyband stuff it seems to be the case. But my experience of A&R is more about helping bands find the right producer and helping them pick which songs are singles and which ones are album worthy. Few major labels seem to have those great experienced A&R folks anymore. They were all made redundant and now the crop of early 20's Umm & Ahh kids don't know mid range from midi. They know little terminology or language of music, song structure or more importantly common reference points of the great music of the last 30 years.

Anyone know the mid week on Rage vs Cliff-Lite?

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
[QUOTE]HISTORY OF MODERN MUSIC

The current situation seems to be very poor, IMO.

ATB from George

Really? Independent artists have never had a better way to get their music distributed and to gain attention. Distribution of music is essentially free. Publicity is easy and close to free. Recordings of (fairly) high quality are possible using consumer-grade equipment. There is lots of interesting (some of it good) stuff out there if you know where to look.

The X-factor etc can be easily ignored should we choose to. Annoyance requires both and annoyer and an annoyed. Just don't be annoyed. Just ignore. To my knowledge I've never heard a Kelly Clarkson or Carrie Underwood song. May it stay that way.

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:

quote:

Originally posted by mongo:

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:
Traditional route = have talent, work hard, show some originality, maybe produce new material, create a following, get noticed by label, receive investment, have deserved success.

Cowells route = trawl through mass audition, stand as judge and jury over the shortlist, apply sledgehammer media exposure, public picks a winner, 15 minutes fame, back to Macdonalds 12 months later. This is not A & R as I understand it but something very different

It is Cowell who is devil incarnate in all this, he has too much power and it's this constant puking out of karaoke stars singing generic dross who then are held up as role models to the young and impressionable that isn't good for music. There's nothing wrong with talent shows but that isn't what X factor is - it's a cynical production line just like a turbo charged Stock Aitken Waterman was a few years ago.

IMO the RATM phenomenum is a brilliant way of drawing this whole debate into the open and in my personal experience as a father of impressional kids is making them ask the quetion - why do I buy into X factor, should I not be looking beyond the brainwashing every saturday night?

All IMO of course

Wonderful...you tell 'em!

Cheers, I felt much better to get that off my chest. I take it you have no opinion to share on this then?

Just off to make my kids listen to something I like.

Hi. Yes i contributed to the whole 'Cowell is something to aviod standing in' affair on several other threads and made myself a little unpopular. So i was doing something right.

But also it's nice to see some passionate responses fromn time to time. I do think that the 'thou shall not offend' pinkos are getting the upper hand in the world in general at the mo' so some vehemence is just what Dr Healthy Sanity ordered.

As for the whole Xmas num'1 business, it simply isn't important to me personally. And in the long run there are far to many GaGa's in our poor world for it to make a tiny bit of real difference. Saturday night happy clappy television will always be.

Tears from me. But no hope.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Dale:
In the 60's where singers were signed and then hooked up with songs written by Tin Pan Alley types I think that was true, and now with the X Factor/boyband stuff it seems to be the case. But my experience of A&R is more about helping bands find the right producer and helping them pick which songs are singles and which ones are album worthy. Few major labels seem to have those great experienced A&R folks anymore. They were all made redundant and now the crop of early 20's Umm & Ahh kids don't know mid range from midi. They know little terminology or language of music, song structure or more importantly common reference points of the great music of the last 30 years.

Anyone know the mid week on Rage vs Cliff-Lite?

Hi Michael,
We basically agree. In effect all I was trying to point out was that SC is an A&R man in the traditional sense of the word (ie Tin Pan Alley era).

Supposedly the embargo was broken by 7Digital and Ratm 502k Joe McCelery 450k


Yipee! for democracy.



Dean...

Wow! That's pretty impressive! Nice to see people taking a stand against Cowell and his production line soulless pop cheese.

Justice prevails, real music kicks the mainstreams arse.



Dean....

quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Hutton:
My deal with my kids is when they ask for a download to their i-pod of 'High school musical' for example, I agree providing I put something on it too.....last time it was 'The Ramones' for a bit of mischief. Seems to work.

Why what have they done to deserve that?
Never did get the Ramones.

Real music??? Not really. It was just as much a marketing campaign as a Cowell track.

Not the kind of stuff I'll be encouraging my children to listen to at this family festive time of year. Shame a decent song was not chosen in this little game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkuOAY-S6OY

Some of those that work forces
are the same that burn crosses.
Some of those that work forces
are the same that burn crosses.
Some of those that work forces
are the same that burn crosses.
Some of those that work forces
are the same that burn crosses. Uggh!

Killing in the name of!
Killing in the name of!

And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya

Those who died
are justified
for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
You justify
those that died
by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
Those who died
are justified
for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
You justify
those that died
by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites

Some of those that work forces
are the same that burn crosses.
Some of those that work forces
are the same that burn crosses.
Some of those that work forces
are the same that burn crosses.
Some of those that work forces
are the same that burn crosses.

Killing in the name of!
Killing in the name of!

And now you do what they taught ya
And now you do what they taught ya
And now you do what they taught ya
And now you do what they taught
And now you do what they taught ya, now you're under control
And now you do what they taughtya, now you're under control
And now you do what they taughtya, now you're under control
And now you do what they taught ya, now you're under control
And now you do what they taught ya, now you're under control
And now you do what they taught ya, now you're under control
And now you do what they taught ya, now you're under control
And now you do what they taught ya!!!

Those who died
are justified
for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
You justify
those that died
by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
Those who died
are justified
for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
You justify
those that died
by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
Come on!

(Guitar Solo)
Uggh!

Yeah! Come on! Uggh!

(Get louder until 9th by which time shouting)
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me.
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me.
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me.
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me.
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me.
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me.
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me.
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me.
FUCK YOU, I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!
FUCK YOU, I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!
FUCK YOU, I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!
FUCK YOU, I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!
FUCK YOU, I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!!
FUCK YOU, I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!!
FUCK YOU, I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!!
FUCK YOU, I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!!!

MOTHERFUCKER!!!! Ugh!!

You have to go all the way back until 1979 for a decent Christmas no 1.

We don't need no education.......

quote:

Shame a decent song was not chosen in this little game.

Agreed

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:

quote:

Shame a decent song was not chosen in this little game.

Agreed

There's always next year...

steve (who happens to have liked RATM for the past 10 years)

I'd have sooner heard Down the Dustpipe or In My Chair .... now they were great records.

...Huzzah - well done everyone! .....

1 Rage Against the Machine Killing In the Name

2 Joe McElderry The Climb

3 Lady GaGa Bad Romance

4 3OH!3 Starstrukk (feat. Katy Perry)

5 Journey Don't Stop Believin'

Shoot. My vote for Lieutenant Pigeon was wasted.

Never mind - if Simon is even slightly miffed, it's been worth 69p.

Joe

Lontano & ROTF,


Guys, are you playing? or has the reason for this song being picked gone right over your heads?

Next year they will do the same but probably with a more appropriate song and the free gig that RATM are doing will become a massive party to celebrate the music that we all love on this forum so again its a win win win situation for real quality music.



Dean....

quote:

Originally posted by Whizzkid:
Lontano & ROTF,


Guys, are you playing? or has the reason for this song being picked gone right over your heads?

Dean....

Now that's a cue for a great song - please click here

She was talking about the world situation
She was sitting on a coffee-bar stool
I heard her say something clever 'bout inflation
And the Ayatollah's rule

It was over my head, over my head
Over my head, over my head
Over my head, over my head
Over my head,

Her eyes were plastered with a lot of mascara
And her hair was cut by Vidal
I was wondering how I was going to score her
A real live intellectual

And then she started talking bout a new production
Of Dostoyevsky in drag
The way her mouth moved was pure seduction
When she said she'd written it up in a mag

It was over my head, over my head
Over my head, over my head
Over my head, over my head
Over my head,

Everybody's talking 'bout a new way of thinking
Getting plugged into silicon chips
All I could think about was lateral linking
And I just watched her Mary Quant lips

Talking over my head, over my head
Over my head, over my head
Over my head, over my head
Over my head,

She asked me was I ever into Fellini
And what did I think of Godard
I tried to imagine her in a bikini
And didn't find it was hard

She said have you seen that Fritz Lang movie
Where the hero loses his soul?
I said I didn't think that sounded too groovy
I'm more into rock and roll

She was over my head, over my head
Over my head, over my head
Over my head, over my head
Over my head,
Over my head,
Over my head,

quote:

Originally posted by Lontano:
Real music??? Not really. It was just as much a marketing campaign as a Cowell track.

Not the kind of stuff I'll be encouraging my children to listen to at this family festive time of year. Shame a decent song was not chosen in this little game.

Interesting, it is the kind of music I would want my children to listen to, it might not be musically to my taste, but it music made with feeling, and honest to itself.

I would also want some teenage rebellion.

Such a pity that MP3's or whatever there is in a dozen years time, do not have parental guidance labels. I have always thought that if a teenage child of mice has no music that does not carry a warning, there will be hell to pay.

Mission accomplished - over half a million middle fingers waived at Cowell.

It'll be interesting to see if he responds to it by introducing less karaoke singers next time around but I cannot see him or the other co-stooges sitting behind that desk giving constructive criticism to some death metal band.