I was fortunate enough to move into a new house a couple weeks ago, and now that things are starting to get more into place, I have somewhat of a dilemma. My new stereo room – yes, I talked my wife into giving me my own room just for my stereo – is quite small. It’s only about 10’ x 13’, or about, what, 3m x a little over 4m. I know it may sound too small, but the only alternative is the main room that is way too big, has a cathedral ceiling, and echoes like a canyon. Not acceptable.
What are the sonic consequences? Surprisingly, not too many. My VA Bachs are very easy to place generally, and they do not produce excessive bass – I have yet to experience any boominess on my beloved classical discs, even the Hartmann symphonies. They do produce great extension in my small room – they’re flat to 40 Hz, with very noticeable extension down to the 31.5 Hz signal on my test disc. Bass is under control.
They do like to be spaced quite widely apart, though. They have to be at least 72” apart, center to center, and they actually sound better at their current 80” apart spacing. Since I have them positioned firing the length of the room to make sure I have a reasonable distance between my ears and the drivers, the speakers are only 20” from the side walls, measured from the center of the woofers. One of the speakers is also close to a window. This obviously results in some reflections, and some higher frequencies can become over-bearing, especially at higher volumes.
My question, then, is how should I damp the room? I was thinking about buying some swanky, though affordable, place rugs and nailing them unceremoniously to the walls by the speakers as well as on the rear wall for good measure. (I will be putting some heavy drapes over the window ASAP.) Are there other, potentially more cost-conscious solutions, or should I go for those acoustic room treatments that look like crap? Any workable solutions are welcome.
Fortunately, if I don’t go crazy with the volume, the reflections are reasonably held in check. But Mahler demands volume. As does Beethoven. And, well, even Haydn, and, well, you get the idea
Posted on: 05 April 2001 by Mike Hanson
Coincidentally, I'm moving into my own house in a month. (Only 25 days until Moving May!) And serendipity strikes again: my stereo room is about 9x12.5', which is almost exactly the same as yours. My Albions are also easy to place; they're currently 8' apart in my apartment, and 18" away from the wall behind them. In the new room they'll likely be positioned very similarly to yours.
I have a bay window behind the speakers, and French double doors behind me. I'll usually keep the doors open, which gives the bass more room to breath. Here's a rough diagram and a picture of the current house owner's configuration:
As you can see, my room is complicated somewhat by a closet that may eventually be removed. For now, it will hide the ugly Mana and muffle the hum from the Super-Cap and 250. There's a chance that stray reflections will bounce off the side of the closet near the right speaker, back into the bay window, then out to me. There may also be near reflections off the left wall.
To alleviate this, I will probably hang something on the walls. I'm considering rugs, but they apparently don't kill all of that high frequency energy. There is a thin, acoustical mat that could be hidden under a rug, so I might use that too. I have a list of web sites devoted to acoustical treatments like this, but it's at my other office. I'll post them on Sunday, when I'm there next.
Of course I'll get the gear set up first, then see if it needs any help. Who knows? It may be perfect as-is.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 05 April 2001 by Martin Payne
Todd,
I've been struggling with a horrible room myself - confused mid-range and a big excess of bass (something I don't need with Isobariks).
I have recently found that damping behind the speakers (a lined curtain, flat not ruffled) really brought out a lot of depth in the sound, and killed some very nasty hardness. This was firing across the room.
I'm currently playing down the 7m length of the room, couch about 3-4m from the speakers. I've (almost) completely filled the wall behind me with bookcases (filled with books) and this has brought about a huge reduction in the confusion of the sound. The long dimension of the room was certainly causing a lot of my flutter problems. I may have slightly killed some of the sparkle, but on balance I'm getting much more of the qualities that I should from the system - depth, note shape, instrument separation.
There was an article in a recent HiFi News suggesting damping the walls in front and behind you, and also applying some other damping near the ceiling (to even out all the damping near the floor - carpets, sofas, etc). He recommended not damping the side walls, although I'd definately want to do this if you're getting flutter echoes from this dimension.
I think my biggest remaining problem is an excessiveness in the bass, which even the Kans can't completely hide. This may actually be the source of my apparent lack of sparkel, as an excess at one end of the frequency range can appear to be a lack at the other end.
Still, progress is being made.
My friend "Juan" has bought acoustic foam panels which seem to apply considerable damping to the room without killing the sparkle. No doubt he'll jump in here sometime soon...
Best of luck with your problems.
cheers, Martin
Posted on: 05 April 2001 by Jaybar
Hi Todd:
Before I get started, thanks for the encouragement to keep the Spectral Gear. I have the room from hell!
1) Concrete Ceilings
2) Concrete floors with parquet over the concrete.
3) Plaster and Cinderblock/Concrete walls
4) Large expansive window behind speakers.
5) L-shaped and glass Dining Room table
It does not get much worse than this.
What has worked that is domestically acceptable:
1) Oriental rugs on Floor with pading.
2) Rugs/tapestries on the walls
3) Heavy PLEATED and Lined drapes
4) Book cases with books of randowm width/height
5) Wooden racks (Zoethecus)
6) MGD (Michael Green Design) Roomtune products used in unconventional ways than normal, based on consultation from Michael Green himself. I sent him a complete photo "sweep " of my room, discussed domestic constraints, equipment, room construction etc. Custom acoutical consultation by folks who have designed listening rooms is money very well spent.
The acoustical consultant can advise on sych things as type of rugs, furnature, window treatmenst etc.
7) Balancing speaker and equipment choices for the room's characteristics. For example, while PRAT is extremely imprortant, some products that excell in liveliness and involvement and PRAT in more damped rooms, become overbearing in this room. Spectral tends to be a bit laid back with great donality and PRAT which suits room. I would be cautious about an all Naim sytem in this room. It would be try before you buy. Similarly after 6 years, I gave up on getting Thiels to work in thsi room.
Remember, the ROOM must become part of the hifi system. If you are sure you are going to be remaining there fore some time to come, than treating the room and matching your system/equipment to perform as best as you can to the given room makes sense. If you will remain there, than custom acoustical consulktation from persons who have worked on audio rooms is the best money spent. Hope this helps.
Jay
Posted on: 06 April 2001 by Jaybar
Hi Todd:
Before I get started, thanks for the encouragement to keep the Spectral Gear. I have the room from hell!
1) Concrete Ceilings
2) Concrete floors with parquet over the concrete.
3) Plaster and Cinderblock walls
4) Large expansive window behind speakers.
5) L-shaped and glass Dining Room table
It does not get much worse than this.
What has worked that is domestically acceptable:
1) Oriental rugs on Floor with pading.
2) Rugs/tapestries on the walls
3) Heavy PLEATED and Lined drapes
4) Book cases with books of randowm width/height
5) Wooden racks (Zoethecus)
6) MGD (Michael Green Design) Roomtune products used in unconventional ways than normal, based on consultation from Michael Green himself. I sent him a complete photo "sweep " of my room, discussed domestic constraints, equipment, room construction etc. Custom acoutical consultation by folks who have designed listening rooms is money very well spent.
The acoustical consultant can advise on sych things as type of rugs, furnature, window treatmenst etc.
7) Balancing speaker and equipment choices for the room's characteristics. For example, while PRAT is extremely imprortant, some products that excell in liveliness and involvement and PRAT in more damped rooms, become overbearing in this room. Spectral tends to be a bit laid back with great donality and PRAT which suits room. I would be cautious about an all Naim sytem in this room. It would be try before you buy. Similarly after 6 years, I gave up on getting Thiels to work in thsi room.
Remember, the ROOM must become part of the hifi system. If you are sure you are going to be remaining there fore some time to come, than treating the room and matching your system/equipment to perform as best as you can to the given room makes sense. If you will remain there, than custom acoustical consulktation from persons who have worked on audio rooms is the best money spent. Hope this helps.
Jay
Posted on: 06 April 2001 by Mike Hanson
My current apartment is actually quite a bit like yours. My living room is L-shaped (a 19' square, with the kitchen taking up one quarter). All of the walls and floors are concrete, with the walls covered in plaster, the floors covered in carpet, and the ceiling stippled. The speakers are at the heel of the "L", shooting up the shaft.
Along the right side of the speakers is 12' of floor to ceiling windows, covered with light-weight curtains. The far left wall is covered in books. The funiture is big and soft. My gear is currently in a big oak cabinet, with extra MDF platforms for isolation.
The room actually sounds exceedingly good: better than any stereo demo room I've heard, and better than most of my friends with wooden houses. I've even had the local Naim distributor visit my apartment, and he was astonished by the sound (especially since my big cabinet is between the speakers, which he generally considers to be a no-no).
Most people attribute this good sound to the concrete construction, which I tend to agree with. In fact, I'm quite concerned that my new house isn't good to sound nearly as good, for that reason alone. I'm planning to use Mana to help out if necessary, as that's done a lot to cure problems in friends' houses. As I mentioned in an earlier message in this thread, I may use other treatments to deal with early reflections and such, so hopefully my room will sound ok.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
P.S. I hope you didn't take my message in the other thread too seriously. I just felt like being a ratbag, and you were the semi-random target. I expected you to rebuke me with unabashed scorn and derision, and I was surprised at your restraint. Very impressive! I hope you get along well with you Linn "Pecan" tuner. 
Have a good day!
Posted on: 06 April 2001 by Mike Hanson
As with all stereo equipment, tuners are a balance in compromises (unless you're paying the really big bucks). With tuners, there are all kinds of issues like frequency selection, multipath rejection, weak signal reception, etc. Because of this, one tuner might be best for one location, but not for another.
Complicating these issues further is the fact that North American radio is subtley different than U.K. radio. Therefore, a great tuner in the UK might not be so great in North America. For this reason, a couple of people whose opinions I respect have suggested I skip Naim tuners altogether and go for a Magnum Dynalab, which is designed and manufacturered in Canada.
I don't know what I'll eventually do, but for now, I'm sticking with cheaper tuners. If I end up listening to it lots in my new house, then I'll consider a "fancy" one.
BTW, I haven't heard any Linn or Naim tuners. I've have seen an old NAT03 sitting on a shelf, though. It looked nice.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 06 April 2001 by Mike Hanson
I've been to New York only once, and I was simultaneously shocked by and enamoured with the iron bridges between Manhattan and Brooklyn.
I'm going to be there again in July for a week-end, so maybe I'll see them again. A good friend has a musical he wrote opening in a festival in Manhattan, which was a good excuse for the trip. The musical is based upon the old silent movie horror "The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari". The music is great, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how it's staged.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
P.S. Sorry for hijacking your thread, Todd. 
