What gives?
Posted by: wellyspyder on 30 March 2006
Now Iran is being flammed for trying to go nuclear. What is wrong with that? Is it not rich for those countries who have it to now say to Iran, you are not going to get it. Why not? Is Iran less trustworthy than loony bush? Or puppet blair? Or other former soviet states? This is double standard. Looks like big bully attitude.
Posted on: 16 April 2006 by erik scothron
quote:
quote:Eric, I have neither the time nor the inclination to act as your teacher or to go through the points that you've made refuting them one by one. There have been some terrible acts committed by the Israelis as well as the Arabs.
You prefer to insult then run? I always back up my statements. I have already pointed that there have been terrible acts by both sides. Why repeat this?
quote:There is plenty of information available, including on the World Wide Web. Try to ensure, however, that you read accounts told by both sides before arriving at your conclusions.
I have already pointed out there is information supporting both sides on the web and elsewhere. Why repeat this? I have listened to both sides.
quote:
Misinformation is the name of the game here, as is quite clear from reading your posts on this thread and one of the greatest propoganda coups of the Arab side is to persuade many otherwise sane Westerners that the Israelis should be likened to the Nazis. In the light of the activities of their wartime leader, the Mufti of Jerusalem, that is beyond reprehensible.
I fully realise that misinformation is the name of the game and both sides do it. I think you would agree that if only half of it is true it is appalling. Unfortunately the evidense to support my statements is overwhelming.
Posted on: 16 April 2006 by erik scothron
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
Erik
I accept that this may be your point of view - and as you know I disagree with your use of the word "Nazi" to describe Israel - but IMO linking the two words is just too emotive. As Steve ( 7V ) has indicated, the Nazis commited Genocide on an industrial scale.
The subject is just too emotive and as such I do feel that these opinions are best left unvoiced. I am aware that some of the posters here are Jewish ( not just Haim ) and this is an area likely to cause much anguish.
Regards
Mike
Mike,
I have chosen my words very carefuly. I have researched this most carefully. If people knew 10% of what the Israelis have done to the Palastians they might feel as I do. I make no apologies. I have heard the words of Israeli politians and Rabbis for myself. I was a member of a charity who sought to increase public perception of the atrocities inflicted by Israel upon Palestinians and I received documentation that made for harrowing reading. Can you imagine British Troops indicriminately bulldozing houses on the Shankhill Road on the basis that someone might be harbouring a terrorist? Can you imagine British Troops tying a 10 year old Catholic boy to the bonnet of their jeeps to deter stone throwing in Armagh? I could list this stuff all night, it's not stuff I've read about, I've seen it on filmed documentaries.
If my definition of nazi is incorrect then I would apologise. If my information of alleged atrocities against Palestinians by Israel is wrong then I would apologise, but bearing in mind no one has showed me to be incorrect on either points I stand by my statement. If it offends then let it be so. Israel has got away with too much for too long. I hope if people are offended it will cause them to examine the events not my comments of the events which, as I say, are a matter of indisputable and overwhelming fact. Turning a blind eye to this stuff is what some Jews accuse Britain of doing during the early years of the second world war. They have a point. Saying nothing because we dont wish to offend is what many in Germany did, they just sat back and let it all snowball. If Israel acts in like manner they deserve the same label IMO or shall we just call it something else? Or even just turn our backs? It is this kind of indifference or complicity that helped Nazi Germany murder as many Jewes as it did. We owe it to their memory not to let anything even remotely similar ever to take place again and what is happening in Israel/Palestein is more than remotely similar and the evidense for that is overwhelming.
Can you imagine British troops in NI behaving like this? This is only the latest outrage:
Amnesty International
Posted on: 16 April 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Friends,
I have read this, and indeed had a few preconceptions rocked to the foundation. I was part of a generation that took it that such a shocking label as Nazi would never be reasonably applied again. Yes I was shocked to see it used in connection with Isreal. And I am not entirely sure I could use to two words quite side by side, but it does not take too much looking at to see that something must be said, something must be done...
It is easy to imagine that the little man in Germany during the Nazi dictatorship, who had no sympathy for his regime at all, risked being eliminated for daring to comment or even act on what he saw going on, but we have no such excuse in the West. We condemned Apartheid in South Africa, and eventually that regime crumbled, and probably faster for the actions that were taken. I see no reason why we should support either side in this dispute. Supporting either side is going to produce catastrophy (nuclear war possibly), whereas what we need to do is address the issues, and they are real enough, totally without partiality at all. What is dreadful must be condemned, without fear of the vested interests.
The danger that is growing in the world is the use of religeous justifications for practical political barbarism. This is to be found in the three major religeons concerned in the Middle East. Indeed religeous fundamentalism and its adherents are far more dangerous than ever the old Soviet Union actually proved to be as a foe, even though there were moments when that could have gone catastrohically wrong.
It seems to me this Thraed has actually been bravely posted to on issues that are of importance for the whole future of the human race. It is everybody's duty to know about it and act in their own small way, even if it means lobbying domestic politicians on the issue within the democratic system, or simply boycotting trade and so forth. Our major political leaders have a moral obligation to act on it, and we should ensure that they are aware of the fact that the population finds these things important, and worthy of action at the national and international level.
I never really imagined I would have anything to say on such an issue as this, but it is far too important to ignore any longer.
Regards from Fredrik
I have read this, and indeed had a few preconceptions rocked to the foundation. I was part of a generation that took it that such a shocking label as Nazi would never be reasonably applied again. Yes I was shocked to see it used in connection with Isreal. And I am not entirely sure I could use to two words quite side by side, but it does not take too much looking at to see that something must be said, something must be done...
It is easy to imagine that the little man in Germany during the Nazi dictatorship, who had no sympathy for his regime at all, risked being eliminated for daring to comment or even act on what he saw going on, but we have no such excuse in the West. We condemned Apartheid in South Africa, and eventually that regime crumbled, and probably faster for the actions that were taken. I see no reason why we should support either side in this dispute. Supporting either side is going to produce catastrophy (nuclear war possibly), whereas what we need to do is address the issues, and they are real enough, totally without partiality at all. What is dreadful must be condemned, without fear of the vested interests.
The danger that is growing in the world is the use of religeous justifications for practical political barbarism. This is to be found in the three major religeons concerned in the Middle East. Indeed religeous fundamentalism and its adherents are far more dangerous than ever the old Soviet Union actually proved to be as a foe, even though there were moments when that could have gone catastrohically wrong.
It seems to me this Thraed has actually been bravely posted to on issues that are of importance for the whole future of the human race. It is everybody's duty to know about it and act in their own small way, even if it means lobbying domestic politicians on the issue within the democratic system, or simply boycotting trade and so forth. Our major political leaders have a moral obligation to act on it, and we should ensure that they are aware of the fact that the population finds these things important, and worthy of action at the national and international level.
I never really imagined I would have anything to say on such an issue as this, but it is far too important to ignore any longer.
Regards from Fredrik
Posted on: 16 April 2006 by HR
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
Erik
I accept that this may be your point of view - and as you know I disagree with your use of the word "Nazi" to describe Israel - but IMO linking the two words is just too emotive. As Steve ( 7V ) has indicated, the Nazis commited Genocide on an industrial scale.
The subject is just too emotive and as such I do feel that these opinions are best left unvoiced. I am aware that some of the posters here are Jewish ( not just Haim ) and this is an area likely to cause much anguish.
Regards
Mike
Mike,
Thank you for your consideration. What I really feel is a deep sadness and fatigue. I am not in competition with anyone to see who is a bigger victim or a less evil but I do not accept distortions and I will stand up to correct them.
It is time for a just and long lasting peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis and it will occur much sooner if both sides focus on bridging the gaps separating them and neglect the name calling, the accusations and the parading of their victims. Perhaps we should do the same.
Regards,
Haim
Posted on: 17 April 2006 by 7V
quote:Originally posted by erik scothron:
Compassion, respect, tolerance and the realisation there are different paths to the same goal maybe, and certainly not entrenched dogma of the 'we are completely right and you are completely wrong' type which I find so repulsive.
...and yet despite your insistence that "you have already pointed that there have been terrible acts by both sides", you continue to detail atrocities of one side only. This makes it clear that you pay lip service only to any concept of even-handedness.
You say that you were a member of a charity which sought to increase public perception of the atrocities inflicted by Israel upon Palestinians, yet you don't see how this may have biased your views.
Clearly discussing this issue any further with you is a waste of time.
Which 'path' did you think you were on again? It seems to be a path without balance that seeks no truth.
Posted on: 17 April 2006 by Gianluigi Mazzorana
quote:Originally posted by HR:
I am not in competition with anyone to see who is a bigger victim or a less evil but I do not accept distortions and I will stand up to correct them.
Dear Haim!
I hope my words did not hit you and i hope you did get my point.
Here in Italy a lot of those who 10 years ago still did think that Jews were only good for fire now go to Israel and visit astonished the Shoah museum.
In their face you see all the surprise just like they've never heard about camps and deportation.
One of them is (was?) our vice prime minister.
Somebody said he'd rather cover the distance between Rome and Israel crawling in knees instead of flyin'.
I have to remember here that even in Italy we had concentrations camps where a lot died killed by italian army soldiers and carabinieri (the same who are in Iraq to bring democracy and still keep a Mussolini or Hitler picture in their wallets).
Here in Italy Shoah is not such a "far thing" as somebody still think or would like to make people believe.
But still i think that killing women and children in Sabra and Shatila camps is murder.
Expecially when the murderers hide themselves behind history and revenge.
Can i really feel what european Jews had to stand during WW2?
Probably not as i feel the injury so deep and still open.
But the few i can feel i feel for all the oppressed on earth.
Shoah is not over and , at my eyes and in my heart, gather all those killed and starved because of arrogance and ignorance.
As i wrote here before i don't believe in god anymore.
Not like in the first years of my life.
I believe in the fact that god is managed like a servant in knees before the interests of few aiming to keep their own privilege and keep people in the deepest ignorance.
Today like yesterday.
What they call god today is only an image and pretext, when i know that god should be balance, justice and respect.
Now that governements and their followers use and jusify torture, murder and starving as a cure to bring peace i see all the distance between me and them and, as you do, i stand up and say that all this is only false and hypocritical.
With all my respect for you.
Gianluigi
Posted on: 17 April 2006 by erik scothron
quote:
[QUOTE] ...and yet despite your insistence that "you have already pointed that there have been terrible acts by both sides", you continue to detail atrocities of one side only. This makes it clear that you pay lip service only to any concept of even-handedness.
You are demonstrably and spectacularly wrong. I was criticised for using the word nazi to describe Israel and so I have sought to justify my comment in order to show there is a link. I have shown the link and shown how others can explore this link for themselves. Nazi Israel is one matter. It is the matter under discussion. Palestinian atrocity against Jews and Israel is another matter that was not under discussion. Discussing one is not a failure to understand the other. This is simple to undertand IMO. In addition to this simple understanding which you lack I have said on this thread and on others that abhor violence of any sort and this is checkable. If you want to start a thread about Muslim extremism I would happily contribute towards it. I abhor religious fundamentalism and I abhor mationalism and I abhor any groups that subjugates another. If you think I am being biassed it may be that you need to examine your own bias.
quote:You say that you were a member of a charity which sought to increase public perception of the atrocities inflicted by Israel upon Palestinians, yet you don't see how this may have biased your views.
If I support a Cancer research charity does it mean I do not suport an MS charity? In fact I support both. First you must prove my views are biased then you must prove I am unaware of my bias. If you can do this you will justify your comments. This is easy to understand in my view.
In fact the information received by this charity was submitted to endless inspection by a group of intelligent academics and activists and information came from a number of organisations such as Amnesty International and the Red Cross. Would you care to say these organisations are biassed? I saw no bias from anyone connected with this charity. I can safely say, hand on heart, and swearing on all that is holy I never met a single arab that was connected with it (thought I did meet Jews) and that it was funded by donations coming from UK street collections and British volunteers. In fact it was so underfunded it folded 4 years ago.
quote:Clearly discussing this issue any further with you is a waste of time.
I was not aware that you had discussed this issue at all. You have made some observations based on a misreading or misunderstanding of my view, you have been rude and you have employed some transparently obvious subversive tricks but you have not engaged in mature debate.
quote:Which 'path' did you think you were on again? It seems to be a path without balance that seeks no truth.
I got involved with the charity I mentioned because There was little or no pubolic awareness of the atrocities committed by Isreal on a daily basis whereas there was extensive coverage of Palestian atrocity against Israel. This is in part due to the fact that Israel visciously controls what the foreign media can film and what they can't. It just seemed very unfair to me. In the interests of the innocent men, women and children of Palestine I played a tiny part in altering the balance. I do not take sides, on this issue, I never have done. Read what I say, not what you think I say.
I am way ahead of you.
Posted on: 17 April 2006 by erik scothron
quote:[/QUOTE]
Mike,
Thank you for your consideration. What I really feel is a deep sadness and fatigue. I am not in competition with anyone to see who is a bigger victim or a less evil but I do not accept distortions and I will stand up to correct them.
It is time for a just and long lasting peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis and it will occur much sooner if both sides focus on bridging the gaps separating them and neglect the name calling, the accusations and the parading of their victims. Perhaps we should do the same.
Regards,
Haim
Dear Haim,
I am in complete agreement with everything you say here. Both sides need to realise how their actions contribute to the situation (and neither do IMO) and both sides need to work together at making a lasting peace. An endless cycle of retaliation is never the answer. I abhor the 'us and them' attitude wherever I see it and I'm sad to say I see it most in the Middle East and Israel is just as much as part of this as any other group. The worst part of it is seeing how parents teach their children to hate and this is what perpetuates these conflicts generation after generation. I am hopeful now that both Arafat and Sharon are out of the way that some positive progress can be made.
All the best,
Erik
Posted on: 17 April 2006 by erik scothron
quote:Originally posted by Gianluigi Mazzorana:quote:Originally posted by HR:
I am not in competition with anyone to see who is a bigger victim or a less evil but I do not accept distortions and I will stand up to correct them.
Dear Haim!
I hope my words did not hit you and i hope you did get my point.
Here in Italy a lot of those who 10 years ago still did think that Jews were only good for fire now go to Israel and visit astonished the Shoah museum.
In their face you see all the surprise just like they've never heard about camps and deportation.
One of them is (was?) our vice prime minister.
Somebody said he'd rather cover the distance between Rome and Israel crawling in knees instead of flyin'.
I have to remember here that even in Italy we had concentrations camps where a lot died killed by italian army soldiers and carabinieri (the same who are in Iraq to bring democracy and still keep a Mussolini or Hitler picture in their wallets).
Here in Italy Shoah is not such a "far thing" as somebody still think or would like to make people believe.
But still i think that killing women and children in Sabra and Shatila camps is murder.
Expecially when the murderers hide themselves behind history and revenge.
Can i really feel what european Jews had to stand during WW2?
Probably not as i feel the injury so deep and still open.
But the few i can feel i feel for all the oppressed on earth.
Shoah is not over and , at my eyes and in my heart, gather all those killed and starved because of arrogance and ignorance.
As i wrote here before i don't believe in god anymore.
Not like in the first years of my life.
I believe in the fact that god is managed like a servant in knees before the interests of few aiming to keep their own privilege and keep people in the deepest ignorance.
Today like yesterday.
What they call god today is only an image and pretext, when i know that god should be balance, justice and respect.
Now that governements and their followers use and jusify torture, murder and starving as a cure to bring peace i see all the distance between me and them and, as you do, i stand up and say that all this is only false and hypocritical.
With all my respect for you.
Gianluigi
Well said Gianluigi.
Posted on: 17 April 2006 by wellyspyder
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:quote:Originally posted by wellyspyder:
The projected lives saved by ending the war early using the atomic bombs, range from under one hundred thousand to 1 million. A large range by my reckoning, so it is just a guess based on assumption. Just assumptions by all accounts.
.
Who cares about only 100,000 lives? Not Wellyspyder. Its just a statistic.
Your credibility is shot away.
Goodbye.
Just the type of narrow minded reply I'd expected from you. QED.
Jump straight to the wrong conclusion. I never said that I do not care about those lives. For your info, since you are too narrow minded to see it because of your prejudice or whatever, I will explain; I am saying those figures are JUST GUESSES, so what water do they hold. Using GUSSES to then drop the atomic bomb is DEPLORABLE!
The accounts over what happened are out there for those who care to read it, you can draw your own conclusion, I' care not which ever way you conclude. I just find it one sided when all that is said is that the bombings saved lives, it was not as simple as that. That is all too simplistic, do not be fooled.
So, despite your claim to be widely read, it has not help your outlook, just narrowed it further.
Posted on: 17 April 2006 by wellyspyder
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
Its not a guess, its a range of projections.
You used the figures, its you I quote, so one can say that you now view your own arguments as flawed at best, deplorable even.
Enfin.
QED. Still twisting things and amazing wild accusations.
Posted on: 17 April 2006 by JonR
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
It always amuses me how close the words "Shalom" and "Salaam" actually sound.
I'm sure that's not the only similarity between the Hebrew and Arabic languages either - ironic, isn't it, that two such divided communities could have such things in common.
I am still waiting for the day when an Israeli spokesman, when interviewed, takes responsibility for his own government's actions in perpetuating this conflict, and for a Palestinian spokesman to do the same. Then, perhaps, the prospect of peace can move a decisive step closer to becoming a reality.
Cheers,
Jon
Posted on: 17 April 2006 by wellyspyder
No greenstick, you see what you "wanna" see!
Posted on: 17 April 2006 by erik scothron
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
Erik
Would you accept that there are occasions when views, however well argued they may be, concern matters that are just too sensitive to discuss in a forthright manner without causing personal anguish?
M
MIke,
Yes, I would. However, careful reading of what I have written ought to give no one cause for anguish IMO. If I have been in any way careless then I am at fault but I have tried to use my words very carefully. I was shocked when I saw the evidense, if I had not been shocked I might have done nothing to help. Is someone anguished because I said something that is true or untrue? If they think it is untrue they need to look at the facts (not easy I know, there are people out there muddying the water). When they see the facts they would be better off condeming those whose actions are causing so much suffering and not taking pot shots at the messenger.
Sometimes we need to be shocked before anything can be changed. People were murdered in gas chambers because no one knew or cared. People are murdered in Africa because no one knows or cares and what will be done about that?
The terrible suffering of innocent Jews is not unique in this world, it gives them no license to act in similar ways to those who caused their suffering. There is no special dispensation. They should not be considered to be a special case. Many Arabs and many Israelis suffer from a certain mindset a mindset that sees the other as less than human or at least less important and where have we seen that before? If I was not completely 100% sure of the evidense I would not have said what I said. I am only the messenger.
There were people telling the allies about the camps in nazi germany but they were ignored too at first. Again if people do not see the similarity it is because either their eyes are closed or they are looking the wrong way.
Maybe 'fascist' would have been a better word Mike, although I doubt Haim would have appreciated that either. However, despite what label is used the persecution and the resulting suffering continues and anyone who denies it is part of the problem and not part of the solution so my sympathy for them may be less than what it may have been.
As I wrote on another post, now that Arafat and Sharon (both terrorists IMO)are both gone I hope for an improvement in the region but when the children of both sides have been taught to hate it is going to be very difficult. When will nations realise that they are not different nor more important than any other nation? Thinking in this way is a source of much anguish. These days I take no sides.
Regards,
Erik
Posted on: 17 April 2006 by wellyspyder
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
I see a troll.
I don't, maybe it's because I am not looking at you LOL
.Posted on: 17 April 2006 by erik scothron
quote:Originally posted by JonR:quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
It always amuses me how close the words "Shalom" and "Salaam" actually sound.
I'm sure that's not the only similarity between the Hebrew and Arabic languages either - ironic, isn't it, that two such divided communities could have such things in common.
I am still waiting for the day when an Israeli spokesman, when interviewed, takes responsibility for his own government's actions in perpetuating this conflict, and for a Palestinian spokesman to do the same. Then, perhaps, the prospect of peace can move a decisive step closer to becoming a reality.
Cheers,
Jon
Yes, wouldn't that be great. Of course Jews and Arabs are Semites and thus the term anti-semitic means anti-arab too. Arabs and jews have lived in harmony and inter-bred and lived as neighbours for thousands of years. Hopefully they will do again.
Posted on: 17 April 2006 by 7V
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
Genuine query to Steve / Haim - would you find the description "Fascist" to be less of an issue than "Nazi" ?
I don't believe that Israelis as a nationality are any more extreme or reactionary than Europeans. There are goods and bads amongst all people and Israelis are no different. In fact they hold a wide variety of views right across the political spectrum.
Some of their governments have been too extreme, in my opinion. I despised Menachim Begin and all that he stood for but I liked Golda Meir and Rabin. I thought that Sharon was an evil man and yet in his latter years he did seem to have found a way forward. The current party of government seems more pragmatic, although it remains to be seen how they will respond to today's atrocity.
And there lies the difficulty. If the Israelis now do nothing they will be perceived as weak by Hamas and Islamic Jihad and this will invite further attacks. If they over react, they will draw worldwide criticism and won't move the prospects of peace any nearer. Finding a balance and doing their best to avoid harming innocents in their response is the best that they can do and that ain't good.
We've never had a situation in the UK with a level of terrorism like that experienced by the Israelis, even in the worse days of the IRA attacks (relative to the population size) and I wonder how we would react if we did. I wonder what the 'response on the street' would be towards our Muslim communities if we had 100 attacks like 7/7 over the next few years. No one likes to think of themselves as racist but there's racism in Israel, racism in the Arab nations and racism in the UK.
So, in answer to your question, I wouldn't personally describe Israel as fascists but to describe them as Nazis would be a huge error of scale, of actions and of intention.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 17 April 2006 by HR
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
Genuine query to Steve / Haim - would you find the description "Fascist" to be less of an issue than "Nazi" ?
M
Mike,
The equal issue that I have with both words has to do less with their broad meaning and more with the form they were used originaly by you and Erik (page 2 of the topic). "Nazi Israelis" "Fascist Israel" without any context (like a specified event or a policy) turn into no more than a name calling and an insult.
I think it is just impossible to try to describe a whole country with one word. Looking at the UK in the last 200 years, all its good, bad and ugliness, what word would you choose to describe it?
Regards,
Haim
Posted on: 17 April 2006 by HR
quote:Originally posted by Gianluigi Mazzorana:
Dear Haim!
I hope my words did not hit you and i hope you did get my point.
Gianluigi
Gianluigi my friend,
Thank you for your concern. You are doing just fine and all your points are penetrating my heart & brain. I am always looking forward to reading your opinions.
Best regards,
Haim
Posted on: 17 April 2006 by Gianluigi Mazzorana
Hi Haim!
Of course thank you!
Writing and reading on a forum leaves a lot to interpretation and misunderstoods can be around the corner.
So it's nice to meet people like you!
Shalom
Gianluigi
PS: goin' to work now.
My boss, the one with Mussolini calendar on desk, is looking forward to see me!
Of course thank you!
Writing and reading on a forum leaves a lot to interpretation and misunderstoods can be around the corner.
So it's nice to meet people like you!
Shalom
Gianluigi
PS: goin' to work now.
My boss, the one with Mussolini calendar on desk, is looking forward to see me!
Posted on: 19 April 2006 by Roy T
Some link1, link2 & Llink3 that speculate upon the speed that Iran is moving towards securing a supply of enriched weapons grade uranium. As you can see the results vary from 9-11 days right out to 12-15 years depending upon the technology and quality and amount of the kit used. I would suggest on the balance of these figures the nuking of Iran for the production of enriched uranium that may or may not be further enriched and may or may not be seen as a precursor to the construction and testing of a delivery system may well not be needed. If Iran is thought to be about ten years away from having a stockpile of enriched uranium is it not a good idea to spend a few years exploring a political route out of this mess rather that being seduced by one's propaganda and acting now? So what is the reason behind this rush to punish Iran?
Posted on: 19 April 2006 by 7V
From what I've read, the consensus is that to make a nuclear device light enough to mount on a missile will probably take Iran some years.
To make a device such as that used by the USA against Hiroshima and Nagasaki, ie. one that could be dropped from an aeroplane or driven by a suicide bomber, could take a matter of months. After all, it didn't take the USA so long back in the early 1940s.
Of course, if Iran can obtain ex-Soviet nuclear stock all bets are cancelled.
To make a device such as that used by the USA against Hiroshima and Nagasaki, ie. one that could be dropped from an aeroplane or driven by a suicide bomber, could take a matter of months. After all, it didn't take the USA so long back in the early 1940s.
Of course, if Iran can obtain ex-Soviet nuclear stock all bets are cancelled.
Posted on: 19 April 2006 by wellyspyder
How likely is Iran going to use a nuclear weapon should they buy/manufacture one?
All this posturing from their leader is to incite national pride, is it not?
After all, given current development, if Iran were to use a nuclear weapon, they will recieve one in retaliation, would they not? I am sure they are not going to embark on madness. No country since ww2 has use this method despite more countries having the capability.
Incidently, South Africa remains the only state when it comes to not having nuclear bombs, by dimantling their bombs. Anyone know why they did it? What was the carrot?
All this posturing from their leader is to incite national pride, is it not?
After all, given current development, if Iran were to use a nuclear weapon, they will recieve one in retaliation, would they not? I am sure they are not going to embark on madness. No country since ww2 has use this method despite more countries having the capability.
Incidently, South Africa remains the only state when it comes to not having nuclear bombs, by dimantling their bombs. Anyone know why they did it? What was the carrot?
Posted on: 19 April 2006 by 7V
Suppose it was that other madman Robert Mugabe and Zimbabwe. He has an irrational hatred of the UK. Suppose he threatened to wipe London off the map, whilst appearing to be on the road to developing nukes.
Would you expect our government to risk the lives of 10 million Londoners on the likelihood that he was just posturing for national pride?
Would you expect our government to risk the lives of 10 million Londoners on the likelihood that he was just posturing for national pride?
Posted on: 20 April 2006 by Rube
Everybody sing along what the world needs now is love sweet love ,as an Austalian I,m ashamed of the way our ancestors masacred the aboriginals of Australia especially Tasmania where only a handful of aboriginals survived systematic slaughter from one side of Tassie to the other.
Our prime minister refuses to make an apology to the aboriginals yet is more than ready to send troops overseas for justice and freedom.
We have to learn to be people who actually practice love and humility what hope have we got otherwise ,a peadeful revolution where people actually choose love even if they don,t
agree with each other accepting difference arent we capable of this yet ? The answer to war is peace not more war .
Pride national or otherwise greed and vanity have been the cause of many wars whats the cure ?
Our prime minister refuses to make an apology to the aboriginals yet is more than ready to send troops overseas for justice and freedom.
We have to learn to be people who actually practice love and humility what hope have we got otherwise ,a peadeful revolution where people actually choose love even if they don,t
agree with each other accepting difference arent we capable of this yet ? The answer to war is peace not more war .
Pride national or otherwise greed and vanity have been the cause of many wars whats the cure ?