252 compared to 52

Posted by: Manu on 07 December 2002

I've done the test.
252 had 300h of continuous play,
SC2 had 250h of continuous play,
52 and SC1 1 year old, 150h powered on, playing occasionaly (20 to 30h).

Test system:
CDX2, XPS2, 300, new 250, SL2.
Units on FRAIM from top CDX2,empty,252,52,high column,300;
PSUs and 250 on QS, dedicated line. 15m NACA5.
52, 252, SC1 and SC2 always unpowered together for less than 15s between each test. Wait for 5 min after power back on. Speaker wires unpluged during the transfers, amp stays on. 3 people testing, one "blind", all agreed on the results.
My LP12/ARO is waiting for a new cart, so not tested.

Tests:
1) 52 + SC1
2) 52 + SC2
3) 252 + SC1
4) 252 + SC2

Numbers given in increasing order of pleasure.

Most significant steps, in increasing order:
1) to 2)
3) to 4)
2) to 3)

The new supercap gives little more background details, a darker background (less noise), more air, cleaner crescendo.
The bigest improvement comes from the 252. It can be considered as a serious upgrade from the 52, if 552 is out of reach. IMHO the step-up from 52 to 252 is as significant as the step from 82/SC to 52/SC.
IMO, the improvement is everywhere: ease, details, timming, air, space, the music does not come from the speakers but from the wall, image (yes...), dynamics ( with the 300, the 52 seems not to be able to deliver fast enough).
We have re-done the tests with the new 250 (200h burning) instead of the 300. We have found that the steps are the same as with the 300 when the SCs are concerned but the differences are less impressive between the 52 and 252.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Posted on: 07 December 2002 by NB
Thanks for posting your analysis of the new equipment.

I am in the process of considering changing my 180 to the new 300 but from your report it seems that as the old 52 cannot show the true potential of the new 300, therefore my 82 is not going to either.

Interestingly as the new gear was available you, didn't test the new CDX2 and the New XPS2. I wonder if the new CDX2 is going to be as big an improvement over the old CDX as the new amplifiers are?

Regards

NB
Posted on: 07 December 2002 by NB
Its about time I placed an order for a new CDX2 then!!

razz

REgards

NB
Posted on: 07 December 2002 by Manu
I've no CDS2 available for the moment, so can't compare. From memory, both (CDX2, CDS2) are in the same ligue.

NB,
Note my test was performed with SL2, which are easy to drive speakers, depending on your own speakers, the 300 can be better. I would suggest you to go toward the new 250 and improve your source or preamp.
The 82/300 combo is on the mullet side, except as I said, if you have demanding speakers.

The CDX2 is MUCH better than the CDX, explaining the differences are useless.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Posted on: 07 December 2002 by Bob Edwards
Manu--

Thanks for taking the time to do the comparisons and then to post them here.

On the CDX2--I've been told by a trusted source that the biggest improvement is in the power supplies, and that a CDX/XPS2 is preferable to a CDX2/XPS. Now THERE is a subject for people to agonize over !

Best Regards,

Bob
Posted on: 07 December 2002 by Manu
Bob
I'd like to do this comparison, but XPS1/CDX are no longer available.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Posted on: 07 December 2002 by J.N.
I was running 52 - Supercap - 250 and tried at home on 'dem' a new 202 - Hicap - 250 and preferred it.

Yup. And that was without a NAPSC, as my dealer didn't have one.

Strange, but true. It is a different sound and may lack some of the attributes of the old stuff, to some ears. The new stuff, sure as hell works for me.
Posted on: 07 December 2002 by Manu
JN,
Are you sure it was not a dream, you really mean you prefer a 202/hicap over a 52/sc.
I have both, but did not even tought of doing the comparison.
I can give you one point, the image is better with the 202. But for the music...........

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Posted on: 07 December 2002 by Rico
Just to clarify - no, the CDX2 is not better than a CDSII.

It is, however, a decent step forward from the CDX.

I can only wonder how good the CDSIII is going to be!

Thanks for the report Manu - looking forward to wrapping my ears around a 252 in the future.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio
Posted on: 07 December 2002 by Onthlam
Rico,

Spoke to Ken at Pro Musica in Chicago the other day.

He has a CDX2. He said that it is MUCH better than the CDS2.
We went on to discuss the value of Naim products. As the line continues to improve...it is costing less to have more music.(opened that can again?)

We were also wondering what the CDS3 was going to be? Its going to be amazing what ever it is.

I will be in Chicago in Feb. and will hear it for myself. First I want to get my hands on a 552.

Regards to all,

Marc
Posted on: 08 December 2002 by NB
I am using Ruark Equinox's which are demanding speakers hence the need for a bogger power amp. My 180 is starting to run out of steam when I turn the volume up.

I take what you say about improving the front end first and will probably change my whole amp to a 252/super/300 to get the best out of each component.

Then its time to change the CD player to the new CDX2!! Wish I had entered the lottery last night. smile

Regards

NB
Posted on: 08 December 2002 by jpk73
Hi!

Don't ask the dealers. They would tell you anyway that the new CDX is better than CDS2!

My dealer always said that the CDX1 is so much better than a CDS1, even without XPS.

- Jun
Posted on: 08 December 2002 by NB
Dealers only tell you things to help you decide to buy their products. wink

Regards

NB
(Cynical as ever!!)
Posted on: 08 December 2002 by David Antonelli
Mark,

I've spoken several times to ken at Pro Musica. He is a really nice guy, but I have always left his company grabbing at my pocket to see if my wallet is still there. Not that he is a hard sell salesman, but the entire place has an air of preverication about it. Do you remember "Simon the Likeable" from Get Smart? The last time I was there he was telling me how great a CDS2/52/500 was with Wilson Audio Sofias, even though the system he played was handilly outperformed in most areas (except bass extension) by my own system at home (CDs2/52/250/WB ACT2). He also told me once that a CD2 was better than a CDX, but then denied it a year later and I was accused of misquoting him (which was ridiculous). I also don't like the way he hovers over you and grins when he his demoing a system. Listening, as he should understand, is personal and is not like showing off a new car.

Nice listening room, though. They need a copy of the Upanishads down there to complete the decore scheme.

dave
Posted on: 08 December 2002 by Rico
Interesting, Marc. Ken's experiences differ from mine - I've spent a good amount of time listening to the CDX2 lately, and have lived with the CDSII since May.

Is your 552 much further away?

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio
Posted on: 08 December 2002 by Manu
NB,
You have to try the new 250 and improved source vs your source and 300.
The new 250 is a "power plant", we won't see any more posts like "my (new) 250 becomes very hot" or "my 250 shuts down".
Naim's warning on fire risks will apply to speakers: I you uprate your new 250 fuse, your speakers can catch fire. big grin

Rico and others,
I don't think (not compared yet) CDX2/XPS2 is better than CDS2/XPS, i just said it is in the same ligue.

IMHO, the CDX2/XPS2 is better than CDS1/CDPS, I've done the demo. CDX2 is more involving, has more rythm.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Posted on: 08 December 2002 by Onthlam
I will hear it for myself in Feb.and make a decision on what sounds better to me.

I agree that there are dealers out there that make you feel like its a hardsell. I hate that to!! I also believe that we gravitate to those who are like minded.

I have known Ken for 24 years and understand its a business first and formost.
I believe that Ken has a wonderful ear and has very high expectations for the line of equipment he carries.If you walk in with eyes open and wallet closed,the music will do the talking.

Are there (former) 6 pack owners who now own a single 500?

I am in no way trying to defend Ken or have the desire to call anyone to the carpet on this topic.

My advice to anyone who has asked me about music and music systems(including my mother) to go out and listen and then make your decision. Its quite safe that way.

Rico, 552? I can taste it. That's how close I am. I am going to hold out for the CDS3. That better be better than whatever!

The happiest of holidays to all,

Marc

[This message was edited by Marc Newman on SUNDAY 08 December 2002 at 20:57.]

[This message was edited by Marc Newman on MONDAY 09 December 2002 at 03:10.]
Posted on: 09 December 2002 by Adrian F.
I was impatiently waiting to this 52 -> 252 comparison. big grin

Were you also able to compare the new 250 to the old one?

What do you think about the active vs. passive setup?
http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=67019385&f=48019385&m=5151912506

One 300 passive should be better than 3x old 250 active. But how ist it against 3x new 250??

happy listening

Adrian
Posted on: 09 December 2002 by Manu
Adrian,
I'll do the test of 250s this week. But it is quite obvious the new one is miles ahead. This new 250 is more comparable to 135s than old 250.
For active setup of new stock, you'll have to wait. 12 new Naim demo units is enough for 2 months,... and the CDS3 is coming (when? i don't know, but my bank account feels (fears) it comming)!
I'll take the time this month to setup an old units (250s, 135s) active rig with SL2. I don't think I will be able to find old amps for a NBL setup.
I'm also curious to compare biamp old vs single new on NEATs.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.