Impression of Naim DAC Vs Weiss DAC2

Posted by: JYOW on 04 January 2010

Brought my Weiss DAC2 to the local Naim dealer for a shootout. Dealer was using a simple configuration:

CD5XS
Naim DAC (no externa;l PS)
202/200 (also Supernait), both no external PS
ProAc D2

All using bone stock power and interconnect cables. Both DACs used Audioquest Coax cables costing around US$800 acording to dealer.

Initial listening with Jazz and Pop seemed to favor the Weiss DAC2 which to me sounded more energetic with more PRAT. However, the Naim seemed to sounded better with female vocal sounding more intimate. For some reason the Weiss' bass sounded FAT on one particular track.

Sorry my sonic memory is limited to the above. But my overall impression is slightly in favor of the Weiss DAC2. Especially given the fact that the Weiss was using Coax link which to me plays second fiddle to Firewire direct to Macbook and should have sounded even better.

Of course the Naim DAC would've been a completely animal with the addition of the XPS or even a 555PS. But that would place it in another playing field, and would in my opinion be a somewhat lopsided playback system given the price differences of the two.

Bear in mind that I was actually more bias toward the Naim DAC going in since I felt it sould match a Naim setup better, and I would not have hesitated to sell my flimsy Weiss DAC for the macho black box.

Finally, while the iPod sounded quite nice in the Naim setup. That Naim wasted the USB ports and missed the opportunity to provide external ASYNC computer connectivity is beyond comprehension. If Naim expected people ro buy a DAC just to connected the their legacy'ish CD players, or even buy a new CDX2X just to connect to that DAC then they have completely missed the point. They have lost a majority of potential DAC customers who expected a CAS solution.

So close yet so far away!

To my friend who came with me to the audition, please chime in, I know you have different opinion.

Posted on: 04 January 2010 by kent

Hi,

Thanks for the review.
Are you saying the Weiss sound better with Firewire connection than Coax?

How is the price of Weiss compare to the naim dac in Hong Kong?

Thanks again for your efforts to write this review. I have been waiting for a review like this for a while. Whenever naim decided to ship the dac to US, I intended to do the same comparison.

Posted on: 04 January 2010 by Joe Bibb

Maybe a Naim (with interface) v Weiss using Firewire would be more interesting?

FWIW, using the Weiss I have not yet found a transport that sounds as good as a Mac/iTunes based source with Firewire. Pure Vinyl or Amarra as music players raise the game further, ime.

I'd hope to try the Naim DAC with these front ends soon.

Joe

Posted on: 04 January 2010 by ferenc

quote:
Originally posted by JYOW:

...That Naim wasted the USB ports and missed the opportunity to provide external ASYNC computer connectivity is beyond comprehension. If Naim expected people ro buy a DAC just to connected the their legacy'ish CD players, or even buy a new CDX2X just to connect to that DAC then they have completely missed the point. They have lost a majority of potential DAC customers who expected a CAS solution.

So close yet so far away!

To my friend who came with me to the audition, please chime in, I know you have different opinion.

The possibilites of different computer audio output solutions are changing fast nowadays, I think it was quite clever Naim did not integrate any of them, let you choose one, which is the most convenient for you and for your computer. I easily can imagine that a Mac/Toslink connection as the basic computer connection can be as good as some of the USB solutions and just the easiest to implement for the minimally computer savvy customers. If you can spend 2000 GBP on a shiny new Naim DAC probably you can spend another 100 Euro on a HiFace USB2 to SPDIF or another 2-300 hundred on a pro Firewire audio interfcae like TC Konnekt (or its new version) or M-Audio Profire 610, etc. If there would be an USB PC input on the new DAC, there would be people to complain why it does not have a FireWire.

Posted on: 04 January 2010 by paremus

ferenc,

I think you are right w.r.t. interfaces as long as the DAC can hold its own.

The results I got with the hiFace were excellent - but the solution is a little flimsy - I would have preferred Firewire and I do wonder if Firewire would have been better still.

Interested in Joe's planned tests.

Joe do you have a hiFace? Are you intending to run the Naim DAC using the Weiss as a Firewire to Coax converter for the Naim DAC

Cheers

Richard

Posted on: 04 January 2010 by DHT

I noticed the other day that the new 'Avantgarde' dac has a firewire input which was designed by Weiss, it seems it is becoming quite common to 'buy in' specialist expertise.

Posted on: 04 January 2010 by js

That's an odd result. Not what I got from the 2 especially via SPdif. Can't argue with what was heard as I wasn't there. I also find it odd that the dealer would use a cable worse than stock here(imo). Oh well, to each his own.

At least I wont claim placebo when your results differ.

I wont comment further but am curious. What DIG cable was used?

Posted on: 04 January 2010 by goldfinch

I would say unexpected results, DAC2 is cheaper than Naim DAC and besides through spdif...
The Weiss is supposed to perform better through firewire though
This is a fair comparison in terms of input used but it is a pity you didn't demo Naim DAC with xps/555ps.

Posted on: 04 January 2010 by ferenc

quote:
Originally posted by paremus:
ferenc,

I think you are right w.r.t. interfaces as long as the DAC can hold its own.

The results I got with the hiFace were excellent - but the solution is a little flimsy - I would have preferred Firewire and I do wonder if Firewire would have been better still.

Interested in Joe's planned tests.

Joe do you have a hiFace? Are you intending to run the Naim DAC using the Weiss as a Firewire to Coax converter for the Naim DAC

Cheers

Richard

I have a friend who is using a Mac with a Metric Halo ULN2 with a very special Paul Hynes 24V power supply as a FireWire-SPDIF converter to the highest - end Meitner DAC. He tried the HiFace and felt as good as the Metric Halo with PH power supply. Now he is looking forward to test the Naim DAC with the HiFace and the Meitner with the MH ULN2, and hopes he will like the HiFace/Naim DAC better

Posted on: 04 January 2010 by paremus

ferenc

Very interesting - please let us know the results.

Posted on: 04 January 2010 by Joe Bibb

quote:
Originally posted by paremus:

Joe do you have a hiFace? Are you intending to run the Naim DAC using the Weiss as a Firewire to Coax converter for the Naim DAC

Cheers

Richard

Richard,

I will try both, I think I can borrow a HiFace. Obviously I will try the optical too, but experience with the Weiss suggests it may not be as good. But of course I haven't had the chance to try the Naim DAC with it.

Biggest issue is can't get hold of a Naim DAC until Feb.

Joe

Posted on: 04 January 2010 by kent

quote:
Originally posted by Joe Bibb:
Biggest issue is can't get hold of a Naim DAC until Feb.

No kidding!

Posted on: 04 January 2010 by JYOW

To be fair, I am obviously far from an experienced critical listener, so please take it as nothing more than one lay person's impression.

And as far as comparing digital front ends, the discernible differences are usually very small and not reliable without long term home listening.

Also bear in mind that the connected equipment are quite elementary compared to many forum members.

Posted on: 04 January 2010 by JYOW

quote:
Originally posted by kent:
Hi,

Thanks for the review.
Are you saying the Weiss sound better with Firewire connection than Coax?

How is the price of Weiss compare to the naim dac in Hong Kong?

Thanks again for your efforts to write this review. I have been waiting for a review like this for a while. Whenever naim decided to ship the dac to US, I intended to do the same comparison.

Yes I can confirm that the Weiss sounds better from my Macbook than various S/PDIF transports I have tried. Mind you none of those were high end sources. I would have loved to have tried my Logitech Transporter but it was already sold by the time I had the Weiss.

The selling price of the DAC2 and the Naim DAC in Kong Kong should be very close, the Naim DAC should be about 10% more than the Weiss.

Without the external Naim PS of course...

Posted on: 04 January 2010 by kent

JYOW,

Can I email you? I will visit Hong Kong this Summer, some tips from you would be very useful.

Alternately, I can be reach at ckoh120 at juno dot com.

Thanks.

Posted on: 08 January 2010 by AMA

quote:
I would have loved to have tried my Logitech Transporter but it was already sold by the time I had the Weiss.

JYOW, Now I'm a bit confused. Your profile suggests you still using Transporter -- or you just didn't upgrade it for a long time.

I'm very interested to listen for Transporter vs Weiss DAC2 and Naim DAC tests. Not only TP as a digital transport but TP's analogue output as well.

Posted on: 09 January 2010 by JYOW

quote:
Originally posted by AMA:
quote:
I would have loved to have tried my Logitech Transporter but it was already sold by the time I had the Weiss.

JYOW, Now I'm a bit confused. Your profile suggests you still using Transporter -- or you just didn't upgrade it for a long time.

I'm very interested to listen for Transporter vs Weiss DAC2 and Naim DAC tests. Not only TP as a digital transport but TP's analogue output as well.

Sorry I think my profile is out of sync.

As mentioned I already sold my Transporter by the time the Weiss was delivered to me.

Just from sonic memory which is unreliable, I can easily live with the Transporter analogue out. The Weiss is very good especially with Firewire. But the Transporter was very close, both are very detailed and smooth as silk. I think the Weiss is more detailed.

Posted on: 09 January 2010 by PMR

Let's be frank or even sandra, but the Weiss DAC2 is a technical marvel at the price, and is much better than the Naim DAC in terms of supporting PC/MAC audio. It's a combination of design, whilst using Firewire. In terms of design only, the Benchmark DAC1 is superbly brilliant, since it's not dependent on the interface, only a 'bit perfect' stream for identical results.

For the best sound, then one needs looks elsewhere, but with huge respect to Weiss and it's achievement.

If Naim produces a Super-DAC, it'll be due to further time and investment with a likewise increase in the price tag. It's sure to come...

Peter

Posted on: 09 January 2010 by patrik0631

I have heard a Dac made in France from a french company named DB-System. The model was La Rosita, model Beta, which has a high grade transformer. It is specially well working with Apple Mac computers (latest models), wireless. It is in fact an improved Airport Express. Well, the sound was amazing. At least as good and some times better than my CDS3 + 555PS or Accuphase CDP500 from a friend. The idea of using the i-Phone as a remote control is also pleasing.

Posted on: 09 January 2010 by DHT

quote:
Let's be frank or even sandra, but the Weiss DAC2 is a technical marvel at the price, and is much better than the Naim DAC in terms of supporting PC/MAC audio. It's a combination of design, whilst using Firewire. In terms of design only, the Benchmark DAC1 is superbly brilliant, since it's not dependent on the interface, only a 'bit perfect' stream for identical results.

For the best sound, then one needs looks elsewhere, but with huge respect to Weiss and it's achievement.

If Naim produces a Super-DAC, it'll be due to further time and investment with a likewise increase in the price tag. It's sure to come...

Peter

Peter Hi, you have whetted my appetite, I will ask to home dem an AX24 and I will 'borrow' one of the new Weiss INT202 firwire interfaces from Keithat Purite, and perhaps compare my Weiss with the DAD?

Posted on: 09 January 2010 by js

You could always just use a JET based interface with any DAC that can reject SPdif jitter. Not everything is fixable as even in a Weiss or TC, you can tell between firewire cables and that's no slight as I like the interface. It just is. Looking forward to see if the INT202 is even better than some of the others JET units. It is certainly less burdened with mixers etc and I'm sure the optional supply will be linear as he doesn't care for switching types.

Posted on: 09 January 2010 by PMR

Don't worry, I'll have the Firewire INT202 hopefully next week. I'll drop you my email once it's arrived.

Peter

Posted on: 09 January 2010 by DHT

Peter Hi, please let me know how you get on with the Weiss interface,from everything I have read it looks 'the' way to connect older ( non usb/firewire) dacs, and with it's remote volume control I could do away with my preamp.

Posted on: 09 January 2010 by secret gardener

quote:
For the best sound, then one needs looks elsewhere, but with huge respect to Weiss and it's achievement.

Peter is that a subtle reference to the DAD AX24 or were to thinking beyond the dacs you have referred to in other posts

Paul

Posted on: 10 January 2010 by PMR

quote:
Originally posted by secret gardener:
[QUOTE]For the best sound, then one needs looks elsewhere, but with huge respect to Weiss and it's achievement.

Hi secret, I was referring to the next level which may include the Weiss Medea, Lavry DA2002, dCS Scarlatti etc.

The DAD AX24 I could include in the above for it's 2-channel 24/192 performance, but since it goes a lot further with 24/384 (DSD), Multi-Channel, MADI interface, plus you could use the Paramix audio workstation, it's really in a league of its own IMO.

Sadly, we are limited by 16/44 quality material. So I feel the Weiss remains the most affordable high quality route for a standard PC, MAC Mini, laptop etc. If you want the very best available, and are happy to build a dedicated workstation solution or even have a multi-channel requirement, then the AX24 is obviously the best sounding and most flexible solution.

Peter

Posted on: 10 January 2010 by DHT

I remember 'emerging' quoting £15k for a basic pyramix set up, it is for recording studios not really domestic use, if you want to record at home the Metric halo uln8 is a dac adc and 8 channel recorder, and to boot the best dac I have heard so far.