Carbon Fiber Road Bikes

I have ridden a Roubaix and also a Trek carbon frame. The latter had only just been launched but I ended up buying a carbon/Ti mix (Colnago CT-2). The were both very enjoyable to ride, the Roubaix feeling a bit more forgiving if anything. Fit and finishing kit make a huge difference and neither bike was as I would have bought it though, always hard to test ride an exact bike in your size/spec etc. The difference between my previous aluminium bike and carbon was marked, between Ti and Carbon less so on the test rides I had.

I chose Ti partly because I wanted longevity and preferred the more classical frame appearance too. Not regretted the choice.

You'll find lots of advice on the Cycling Plus forum. The Roubaix seems to be much liked in general.

I'm far more sure these days that wheel choice makes a big difference to the ride of a bike, I've 2 different sets of wheels with the same tyres and the different feel is quite suprising. Save some of your budget for a good set.

Bruce

I also went for a titanium road frame, and haven't regretted it.

quote:

I'm far more sure these days that wheel choice makes a big difference to the ride of a bike, I've 2 different sets of wheels with the same tyres and the different feel is quite suprising

Also, latex inner tube made a surprising difference to me.

Any views on how well Condor bikes stack up at this market level?

Peter

Thanks for the comments.

The point about wheels is a good one, and one that I wasn't completely aware of.

I looked at the Litespeed Tuscany and determined that the bottem bracket flex might be undesireable considering my size and strength. (220lbs) This is in addition to a back that is less than perfect.

Carbon appears to offer terrific verticle compliance while offering substantial bottem bracket rigidity. Scott Nicol of Ibis has moved to carbon now that he has restarted his old company; and bein g a big fan of his previous work, his move to this material is a strong endorsement.

Aside from wheels are there any other things that I need to be aware of with a carbon bike other than the warranty?

tw

Tristram

I get the feeling you've not actually ridden any of the bikes you are discussing. I think my best advice would be that if you are spending £2k on a bike you ought to find a well regarded local dealer and spend time with them getting what you want. Ideally get to ride a few. Certainly it is worth considering your weight when speccing your bike and you also will want their input re sizing too.

A bit like choosing decent HiFi-you may read the reviews and manufacturers blurb but you'll still want to try it out.

Whilst carbon has some favourable characteristcs as a material you'll find that geometry and design effect compliance too. I recently had a very quick spin on a carbon monocoque bike that was as hard as nails.

Bruce

Hi Tristram,

I have ridden / tested both the Roubaix and the Cervelo Soloist and as far as I am concerned they are poles apart in terms of ride characteristics. I felt the Roubaix was ideal for 'long' rides where comfort is paramount - an ideal Cyclo Sportive frame. I did feel that on the Roubaix I was loosing some power to the back end especially when climbing out of the saddle... bottom bracket flex! oh and in my opinion the Roubaix with it's frame geomatry does not corner as directly as I would like, and I just could not get my position as I would like on the Roubaix (but I didn't try that hard).

The Cervelo Soloist is an out and out racer, feels like one and ride is much more what you would expect from a thoroughbred. It climbs and decends well and would be my choice of the two. It feels much more ridged and a lot more responsive.

May I add both bikes were kitted out with identical Shimano Dura Ace and Mavic Ksyrium Es wheels and continental tyres.

Bruce's advice on taking a bike for ride is spot on - only you can tell which you prefer!

I'd also like to put a few other frames into the mix... how about the Argon 18 frames? They make both carbon and titanium at very competitive prices and I have a mate who has the titanium that he raves about every time beat his ass in a sprint! Seriously, the Argon is well made, light and looks bullet proof.

BUT, my fav' carbon frame builder is Look. I have ridden Look frames for a number of years - I ditched my Reynolds 753R (showing my age to get a Look and I believe they strike a balance between ride quality and all out race spec'. I currently have a white 2007 595 and a black KG451 HR Carbon Frame. I use the KG451 as an every day training bike and the 595 for racing and Cyclo Sportives. The 595 is stunning in every respect. I know the Look will take a 220lb guy as I'm in at 195lb, but I'm not sure how it will feel / ride with a person with lower back problems.. I urge you to try one!

As far as what to look out for carbon frames? Well my KG451 is a few years old and I have taken a couple of falls on it. Carbon is a lot more robust that most think.

Good luck in your search and please keep us informed of what you buy.

MontyW

Bruce.

You are correct with regard to test riding. I find however that I can focus my choices by seeking the commentary and advice of both salesmen and particularly those pationate about a given product. Often you can get excellent ideas about what to try and what to look for by asking the right questions. This thread has already given me some additional ideas that I would not have considered.

I might add that bicycles are a strange product whereby it is more difficult to test ride them under conditions and situations that make a rational and difinitive decision possible. Unlike a mountain bike which I can rent and demo at Whistler, meaning I get top bikes to hammer under optimal real world riding conditions, road bikes are offered in a manner that tries not to diminish their value while riding (please don't come on anything other than a nice day) or the expectation of use for a very limited less than optimal situation. In addition, especially for a high end rig, it is difficult to get the ride size to test because few shops want to carry high end inventory for fear of being stuck with it.

Having said all of that, at this price, a test is the only reasonable solution.

Montyw.

Appreciate the additional suggestions along with some candid comments about the bikes I mentioned. A good friend of mine mentioned some of the exact frames you did along with the Colnago C50 and Time VX5. Part of my decision will be based on availability, ability to get repared in multiple jurisdictions, warranty and the size of the company.

I have an old Ibis Mojo steel mountain bike. I bought what I still regard as one of the finest hand made steel frames available, but when they went under, the warranty (limited lifetime) went with them. On a $1200 steel frame that is not a big deal, but the company was legendary for their ti bikes which now lack the coverage once promised and expected. This makes a large well capitalized company with a large R&D budget very appealing. It also means that when dealing in carbon, these things are prerequisites.

Your comments on the Roubaix were interesting and for the purpose of clarification, which model did you try? I will be examining the new S-works Roubaix as a direct comparison to the Cervelo Soloist. The pricing is identicle or very close as is the parts list.

My lower back issue is long standing and requires a slightly more upright positioning rather than a classic race pose. I mountain bike aggressively and have found that full suspesion is far more forgiving than a hard tail which while obvious also offers the opportunity to ride some of the more challenging trails here on the North Shore of Vancouver. The difference in riding characteristics has been the major consideration in the purchase of a road frame in addition to the substantial costs involved.

My thanks again to those of you for your time and willingness to share your thoughts. They have been helpfull.

tw

Hi Tristram,

The Roubaix I tested was the 06 S-Works. If you really need / prefer a more upright position then the Roubaix may be the one for you.

I'm now 42 and in my mid 30's I injured my lower back and more recently my neck, both in cycle related accidents. With lots of help from a great sports physio and osteopath I was back on the road quite quickly. I spent a lot of time swimming and in the gym to help rehab'. Now my back and neck are fine - more like the mind is willing but the legs are weak

If you find it difficult to get the 'right' position on a bike and need a more upright position have a look at the Look Ergo Stem - it really is very good for helping to sort out positions (I don't work for Look - just love their products ) although the design you either love or hate.

All the best,

Monty

Tristram -

I used to ride and race Colnago carbon frames (C40s and 50s). But last year I bought a Look 585 and loved it - probably the best frame I've ever ridden. I've just bought a new 595 (also in white ), but have promised myself to wait until at least March to race it.

Cervelo have had some serious quality problems with their CF frames and recently had to recall a large quantity of R2.5s. That said, they are very light.

Colnagos are almost indestructible, have a lot of cachet and are real 'all day riders'. Their longer wheelbase makes them feel less twitchy than other frames. I moved away from them because relative to their price they just weren't as innovative (or as light) as the newer Look frames.

I haven't ridden Spesh carbon frames - but the Roubaix is deliberately engineered for comfort (eg over cobbles), rather than for responsiveness.

This all really comes down to what you want to do with it. One of the features of CF is that the material can do lots of things, and CF frames are often very different to each other. Lugged ones (like Colnagos), tend to be available in more sizes (which is good) and more forgiving. Monococque ones, as Bruce points out, can be incredibly light, but seriously uncomfortable.

So...do you want to do sportives likes the Etape? Get into serious racing? Or just blat about a bit before seeing if you want to join a club and take it further?

If I had to buy one all-rounder, it would be a Look 585. Sigma (www.sigmasport.co.uk) have them on sale at the moment...

Tim J

I have both a Roubaix, Cervelo R3 and the Soloist. The R3 is best of both worlds, comfortable, and fast. The Soloist is a race bike, stiff and fast.

Hi Tim,

Glad you like the Look 595 too... so did you get the 07 with the integrated seat post?

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Jones:
Tristram -

I used to ride and race Colnago carbon frames (C40s and 50s). But last year I bought a Look 585 and loved it - probably the best frame I've ever ridden. I've just bought a new 595 (also in white ), but have promised myself to wait until at least March to race it.

Cervelo have had some serious quality problems with their CF frames and recently had to recall a large quantity of R2.5s. That said, they are very light.

Colnagos are almost indestructible, have a lot of cachet and are real 'all day riders'. Their longer wheelbase makes them feel less twitchy than other frames. I moved away from them because relative to their price they just weren't as innovative (or as light) as the newer Look frames.

I haven't ridden Spesh carbon frames - but the Roubaix is deliberately engineered for comfort (eg over cobbles), rather than for responsiveness.

This all really comes down to what you want to do with it. One of the features of CF is that the material can do lots of things, and CF frames are often very different to each other. Lugged ones (like Colnagos), tend to be available in more sizes (which is good) and more forgiving. Monococque ones, as Bruce points out, can be incredibly light, but seriously uncomfortable.

So...do you want to do sportives likes the Etape? Get into serious racing? Or just blat about a bit before seeing if you want to join a club and take it further?

If I had to buy one all-rounder, it would be a Look 585. Sigma (www.sigmasport.co.uk) have them on sale at the moment...

Tim J

I'd be interested to hear what you think about Colnagos against the 595.

Cheers,

Monty

Monty -

Yes. I think they're only available with the integrated post. Have to confess that I bought it on the basis of how good the 585 was and, er, looks.

I took it out today for the first time. The ISP, while it makes travelling with and reselling the frame a bit of a swine, is a fundamentally good idea. It feels both more comfortable and stiffer than the 585. Because of the elastomer in the post, they didn't have to build any flex into the seat stays and were free to make the back end as stiff as possible.

It works. Compared to the 585 it's not night and day, but it's definitely more responsive. Despite my lingering affection for Colnago, it's a lot better than my C50 for about the same price. I haven't been on any serious descents with yet, but the handling is spot on. I think I'm quite lucky with Look sizing because the seatpost length is perfect for my measurements and the stem length is spot on with a 120mm.

Can't wait to race it next year when I'm a bit more worthy of it...

Tim J

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the reply. I have always been a fan of Colnagos - even from my racing days when I had a Master with chrome lugs (that dates me)!

I too have a white 595 and boy will you be in for a great time when you are able to test it on a serious descent. I took mine out to Fleet Moss and Butter Tubs and it the frame has amazing qualities - just point it at the corner and it goes exactly where you want it to go - it really builds confidence.

Good luck with next season.

Monty

I ride a CF Alan and love it! One thing I would say (and apologies if its a lesson in sucking eggs ) is that fit is everything. So I'd recommend getting a specialist fitting FIRST and only then looking at frames that suit. Mosquito Bikes in Islington do a proper fitting (Serotta trained guy) for £90 and have a pretty wide range of frames too. You will also receive a package containing printed copies and a CD with all the Photographs, Interview, Flexibility and Jig information.

Link: http://www.mosquito-bikes.co.uk/

Tristram,

Any news on what frame you chosen?

monty

Hi Monty.

No frame yet. I managed to locate a dealer that I knew when I lived here previously. He has a new shop and is a wealth of information on the few brands he has, and has directed me to another shop for several others, many of which were mentioned here.

The weather on the west coast (Vancouver) has been less than hospitable, which makes test riding impossible. In addition the ski season is in full swing, so with those two things in mind I have put the bike issue on the back burner.

One additional issue has been an accident by a good friend of mine while riding. He was a long time road racer, and was an enthusiastic supporter of my new venture. In spite of the fact that he was not seriously injured, he is reluctant to get another road bike. A wife and two kids depending on him made the entire event sobering.

While the drivers here are not as bad as Massachusetts (perhaps the worst drivers in North America), west coast drivers are quite dangerous. Trying to explain to some idiot that a 6000 lb Landrover hitting a 225 lb man on a 25 lb bike means no do overs, is pointless, because they don't get it.

This subject has given me pause when considering a road bike purchase. It's a sad state of affairs.

Again, I appreciate all the input provided here. If I am inspired to buy one, I will post back with the final decision.

tw

Anyone tried a Kona Paddy Wagon or Pearson Touche? I am tempted by a single speed.....

quote:

I managed to locate a dealer that I knew when I lived here previously. He has a new shop and is a wealth of information on the few brands he has, and has directed me to another shop for several others, many of which were mentioned here.

Hi Tristram

Can I ask who the dealer and the shop are? I am in Vancouver and looking for a good dealer/shop.

Thanks
Jim