Mini-monitors

This looks like a super set-up for Kans.... .

Martin

Agree with the setup. The problem is the room shape. There simply isn't anywhere where I could put them where they could perform reasonably well. I've tried them before close to a wall and really didn't like the overall balance of the sound they produced. I know they are 'supposed' to work next to a wall, but in my experience they are much better with some space around them.

Ejl: I wondered when the Kan brigade would ride in! I've heard Kans in a Linn setup. To say I didn't like them is putting it mildly! It could have been that I just didn't like the Linn setup. However, I would like to give them a go in a Naim system. Anything that I should look for in particular? (I know there are several different flavours.

Well, I can understand your concerns with small rooms, mines roughly 5x4mtrs, and I use SBL's. But it works well. OK, you have shape problems, and that will involve compromises. But how long is this move? Permanent? And are you really prepared to give up the Credos, which are a rather nice speaker, for something smaller, and almost certainly inferior soundwise, even given the disadvantages of placement for the Credo.

I'm not going to try and start a Kan war, or diatribe here, but have a read on the REL site about Richard Lords thoughts re small speakers, bass or lack thereof, and whether a small speaker, physically incapable of reproducing the full bandwith of both live and recorded instruments can truly be construed as HiFi per se given it's inability to reproduce the recording, or instrument as it was. Which is what HiFi is supposed to be all about. You wouldn't want to throw away the top octaves of sound would you? - may I humbly suggest, depending of course upon what music you listen to, to re-evaluate parting with the Credos, or, perhaps, if you must, look at integrating something small, with a decent sub.

Anyway, just a thought,

Good luck,

John.

Populist thinking exalts the simplistic and the ordinary

I found Credo's unworkable in my room, owing to severe space limitations.

Even with some very solid, old walls they boom like buggery when close to my wall.

They had to be brought out a signifiant and impractical distance to make them work, and hence I use....Kans.

The Credo's when in a suitable environment have some endearing features, and can sound excellent. There are certainly aspects I prefer over my Kans.

I think SBL's are about the only other thing on the market I could use.

I could certainly see why if used to wider bandwidth speakers moving to Kans could be difficult.

A.

Katans. I liked them on the end of Genki/Kolekto/lk140 but I liked them on a Nait 5 too. They're c. 650 GBP.

Peter

IBL's may be the ultimate solution. And you can plonk em right up against the wall. they do need a solid wall though.

I used a pair of IBL's in a room the same size as yours, in fact a dining room in a victorian terraced house, which I had never thought of as a rabbit hutch before!

The IBL's worked a treat in that room. They didn't excite the room mode that the SBL's with their fuller bass sometimes did. Any visitors who arrived with preconceptions about the IBL's lack of deep bass quickly shut up after a blast of Beastie Boys Ill Communication!

They don't do scale but they tell you exactly what the performers are doing.

Mick.

sonofcolin:...I would like to give them a go in a Naim system. Anything that I should look for in particular? (I know there are several different flavours.

I have never compared different Kans directly but I have heard:

Early Mk1: 1 pair on one occasion in two or three systems.

Mid to late Mk1: 3 to 5 pairs in many systems on many occasions. I have owned a 1987 pair since 1987.

Active Mk1s: Never.

Early Mk2: 1 pair on more than one occasion, powered by a NAIT2 with different sources.

Mid to late Mk2: Never.

Final Mk2: One pair on one occasion in one system.

With the proviso of this limited experience, my impressions are:

Early Mk1s are best avoided unless you can get a thorough demo. They're very musical but have weird distortions and sound two dimensional.

Early and late [and repsumably all in between] Mk2s have a subjectively flatter frequency response, a freer, more open sound and less distortion. However, I'm not sure if early Mk2s are as good as late Mk1s, overall, but I'd expect them to be acceptable in a greater range of systems and rooms because of their more even sound.

Very late Mk2s are my favourite Kans. The one time I heard them they seemed to build on the strengths of both Mk1 and Mk2.

Alternatively, the Shahinian Super Elf might be suitabele. Also, they're American, which may make a used pair easier to find. I have no idea if they're still made. They arfe expressive, have vivid tonal colour, are bigger than Kans but still fairly small and - if I remember correctly - are suitable for use close to a wall. As with Kans the music has a "free of the box" sound. However, I have only heard them powered by a 250, and wondered, at the time, what they would sound like with 135s - which may or may not mean something...

JD

Thanks for all the responses. I'll try and give you a summary of my thoughts so far.

The main reason for parting with the Credos is as follows. My move is permanent (well, minimum 1 year, which is permanent in my eyes!) so 'tolerating' the Credos in a small room is really not what I want to do. I could box them and store them, sure, but I am investigating the possibilities that work well in the environment I have outlined.

Space saving isn't really the goal here. I know that the stondmounts will take up as much space (almost) as the Credos, so this really isn't the issue. I am more concerned with the booming bass that they will produce, especially as I listen to a lot of Dub and 'Electronica'. I am willing to sacrifice losing the lower octaves of the bass as long as there is still a modicom of deepish tuneful bass available.

A sub could be used, but I would prefer to try the monitors first without. The biggest problem will be getting a home dem. There really isn't a decent hi-fi dealer near DC (this has been discussed earlier on the forum), which is disappointing and frustrating at the same time. I really need to have a clear idea of what options are available that would work in he context of this situation.

I will try and get a dem of some Katans, Proacs in London at a Naim dealer (anyone know ho stocks both?) and seek there advice. I will of course try the Credos in the room first to be certain about my misgivings. Maybe they will suprise me!

Thanks again

Colin

SoC

Have a listen to:

Dynaudio Audience 42 (£400) on Dynaudio Masterstands (£200) - small but fun.
Dynaudio Audience 52 (£577) on Masterstands - loads of presence.
EPOS m12 (£500) on Masterstands - really rhythmic.
Linn Katans (£635) - I like them on Masterstands but others prefer them on the Linn stands.
AVI ProNine (£900ish) on Masterstands - not sure if the 140 will drive them. Cracking speaker!

The room's not so small that floorstanders are out of the question. Have a listen to Ruark PreludeII's - a very underrated speaker.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Colin

The longer I am interested in Hi-Fi and music the more I have come to realise that speakers are incredibly personal and vital to your enjoyment of your music. I was always a "source first" person, but all my grief has come from speakers. Pay a reasonable amount (500+ GBP) for a decent CD player and a Naim amp and you cannot go too far wrong. Buy good speakers that you end up not being happy with ... bad news, and all too easily done. A Hi-Fi designer took me through the design compromises that speaker designers have to wrestle with, and small wonder that even expensive speakers have major flaws.

There is an answer ... find a great dealer, who will invest the time and effort to let you get it right, and do an extended home demo. All I would say is that such a dealer will make scant profit from such a sale, so make sure you buy your other equipment from him/her.

good luck, and enjoy investing the time in getting it right.

Nic P

Frank

Thanks. All of the speakers mentioned I have thought of except the Ruarks. I'll seek them out. Pro nines look the business, but your probably right, they bwould need more than a 140 to keep them in check.

Nic

A great dealer would be very helpful. sadly, there is 1 possibilty in the vicinity of DC and although very helpful with the dealings I have had with them, they do have a very limited stock of speakers, non of which really suit my needs. I do agree with evrything you have said.

The ideal solution would be for me to keep the Credos. I've had them for 5 years and have always enjoyed what they do (when setup correctly). I will set them up in the new apartment and see what happens. I will also have a listen to some alternatives in the meantime as the system will be retired to their boxes on monday (sniff).

Colin

Colin, I can speak favourably to Pro-ac 1SC's, I also have 72/Hi/140 and with a good source sound is fine. If you are ever as far North as NYC, your are wellcome to a listen.

Regards, David