52 changes

If you've not done the demo, why are you thinking of upgrading?

your kidding right! Upgrade for BETTER SOUND!

hi shahreza, how is my old lp12 doing? You make it sound like the 82 to 52 move is a no brainer. I have made alot of changes in the past year so I am thinking, thinking, thinking..... regards, david. ps, how are all those albums? Next time you are in NY, give me a call and maybe you can drop by and have a listen. david

Hi Davidf
It is true that four or so years old and with a supercap 52s are much the same in terms of hardware. Unfortunately not so,in terms of software! If you want to run a Flash remote control with all the functions then you will need a unit from about 2000 or later. The cost of upgrading the software on a 52 is really far more than is worth doing.
However, imho, the 52 does sound excellent.
Good luck
Raphael

Good question Bruce-

I wondered the same when I used to run a single 250 with my ES22s. The thing that persuaded me to go the 135s was the fact that the 250 used to trip out when playing loud on a hot day. Of course that doesn't happen now, but the immediate difference was that the 135s do a much better job of controlling the drivers. They seem to stop and start quicker. As a result the sound is much more defined than previously. Loud music is much less fatiguing, and actually has more scale and presence than the 250 could manage on its own.

The only problem with increasing the number of full width boxes with big trannies is that if they decide to hum, which does happen intermittently, you can hear it in quiet passages of music.

Cheers, Jens

Interesting, Jens. I had a chance to bi-amp with 2*250 some time ago and, whilst not expecting much, was mighty impressed. Then a couple of months later I had a chance to try 135s, but this time expecting a lot, and was disappointed. Admittedly I only had a short time with the 135s and they were cold. I tried both these combinations in my own system at home in the days I had CDX/CDPS/82/Hi/250.

I am not unhappy with the single 250 in my system, now that that it has CDS2/52 in front of it. I have never tripped my 250, I have no need to go beyond 9 o'clock on the volume dial and, in Scotland, we don't do hot. But a pair of 135s are being dangled in front of me. So should I give them another chance? Anybody else's experience?

In my very large room changing from 250 to 135`s was a very worthwhile upgrade. This in the context of cds2/82/supercap/linn 5140 speakers. Highly recommended. Bigger fuller sound, filled the room more, more detail, better bass. Later, david.

[This message was edited by davidf on TUESDAY 27 August 2002 at 18:09.]

David

You really must get yourself a 52, it will knock the spots off your current system.

Your front and rear end are gasping for the 52........buy it at the earliest opportunity.

Regards

Mick

Hmmm... no...

Good point James,

One of the immediate things that strikes you about the 135s compared to the 250 is that the bass goes deeper. I guess that doesn't happen if the polarity is messed up and the speaker are out of phase!

Bruce if you take up James offer it would be really interesting to hear of the comparison between 135s and a pair or even a trio of 250s on the ES22s, if you can manage it.

Cheers, Jens

quote:

---

Originally posted by James:
Bruce _et al_

In my experience using a pair of easily driven Sonus Faber Concertos, bi-amping with a pair of 250s (with 82/2HC in tow) offered bugger all gains. If anything, the music took a backward step.

---

James,

I found the same thing bi-amping with 4x135.

4x135 on Isobariks was a big gain, though. I guess you lose something bi-amping, but may gain with the extra power, if it's needed.

cheers, Martin

James, thanks for the tip on this - so obvious, now done and changes noted!
Joe H.

OK, so I got the 135s off James a few days ago. I've been very busy. They were still sitting in their boxes when he asked if I like them. Guiltily I hooked them up this afternoon whilst looking after my 2 young children and their 2 friends who had home with them after school. They were killing each other so it was not the most conducive of first impressions. The buggers were real heavy. Creaked my neck round the back of the super to hook up. Put on Karen Metheson's new CD to warm them up. And whoaaa... I was totally unprepared for what I heard. And this is from cold. So much more tuneful than the 250, such emotion conveyed and real hammer bass even at the girlie volumes I play at. It's put paid to any lingering doubts about needing to compare with bi/tri-amped 250s. This is just so much better than my previous experience with 2*250s. Obviously my previous brief listen to 135s was somewhat hampered by speakers being out of phase. I am not one usually given to superlatives but I had thought CDX/CDPS to CDS2/XPS was big, then I thought 82/super to 52/super was even bigger, well, 250 to 135s takes the biscuit, by far. I like them a lot. It's going to be a long and meaningful relationship. James, thank you.

Yeah, only trouble is anybody got a spare 6-tier M*** rack?

This may be of interest.

Topica

I didn't think of the plugs things either.

I changed mine last night and it makes a big difference.

Is there any other obvious things I might have missed ?

Andrew

Andrew, and how was it for you? I was b-l-o-w-n away. See my post above.

I pulled out the Roger Waters 'Amused to Death' CD. Since this is recorded in Q-Sound its a good test of whether things are in phase. The dog barking at the beginning now lives next door again.

The main differences between the 140 and the 135s come in place I hadn't thought of.

1. Yes there is more bass. Thats the point IBLs like lots of power and control and if its lacking then they sound a bit thin. However, the bass improvement is in some places like Metallica but the BIG differences are on things like the Enya CDs which have a lot of more subtle bass and the soundtrack to the film Lagaan. In fact all the Indian film soundtracks have a lot of bass and a lot of very high pitched female vocals. The vocals sound less harsh and the bass improves a lot.

2. The over-all control is improved. Things like the genies voice on the Roger Waters album which is distorted (I'm not sure how else to describe it) or not natural have improved lots. The control seems to make a lot of difference.

Andrew

ps. Upgrading the power amps has put me back on that upgrade thing that men seem to have. Racks are next with the question of improving the 72/Hi to either an 82/Hi(x2) or a 52/Super after that or improving / changing the speakers.

Racks? Runs for cover...

Can somebody please explain more about inverting one pair of speaker cables if using 135's please?

It means connect the red terminal (+)on your amp to the red terminal (+) on the speaker, or it sounds horrible. Your Naim dealer will have already done this very advanced technical set up procedure for you when they installed your system, thus justifying the expense of Naim gear.

Thanks Rockingdock, but since Naim pulled out of Ireland we have to work out these highly technical issues for ourselves. My real question is why would anyone be led to invert the connections in the first place. Is it not absolutely straightforward?