New Naim DAC - wishlist
Posted by: likesmusic on 27 February 2009
Hi - I'm new to this forum, but the prospect of a NAIM DAC has really excited me, so firstly I'd like to say thanks to NAIM for evidently listening to their customers, existing and potential, by designing a DAC to meet their needs. In the hope that you're still listening, and things aren't too finalised, can I initiate a discussion about what people want from this product, starting with what (I think) I'd like ...
1. Generous connectivity. I want options to listen to cds, my sky-box, DVD, and direct from my laptop or streamed wirelessly from my pc.
Sure, when everything is ripped, I won't need a cd player, but I've thousands of cds yet to rip, and life is short and anyhow I still buy cds and want to play them straight away, so I'll need and use a cd transport for some time yet. Mine has S/PDIF and TOS outputs.
I've other digital sources (like SKY) that I'd like to be able to listen to through a great DAC (the way Linn have gone with their DS really locks other sources out - £10K for a DAC that you can only use via ethernet is ridiculous!)
2. Wireless streaming. Sure ethernet is better, and I hope you'll have that too, but again, my flat is old, over 2 levels, and laying ethernet cable would require tearing things up - so don't force me to do that, or make me mess around with dodgy ethernet over the mains stuff like Linn do, 'cos I'm not going to right now.
3. Sound quality should be beyond reproach. In particular, the source should not affect it. So, whether the bits come from a pc or a cd transport, if they are the same bits they should sound the same. The DAC should be independent of (reasonable) jitter in the source. A competently ripped cd should sound exactly the same as the same cd played from a competent transport. Presumably to cope with streamed data, the DAC will have memory inside it, out of which the data is clocked; data from other sources could be read into the same buffer. A small delay is quite acceptable. Of course, if you've found another way of insulating the thing from jitter, great - but however you do it, there should be no issues with cables/sources affecting the sound. Obviously, delay wouldn not be acceptable for all sources (ie those that need to sync with video).
3. I would hope you can get it right without having an external powersupply as an upgrade.
What do other people want/expect ...?
A volume control perhaps? (After all, with one it would be pre-amp in it's own right)
Balanced outputs? (Then professional use would be easy)
1. Generous connectivity. I want options to listen to cds, my sky-box, DVD, and direct from my laptop or streamed wirelessly from my pc.
Sure, when everything is ripped, I won't need a cd player, but I've thousands of cds yet to rip, and life is short and anyhow I still buy cds and want to play them straight away, so I'll need and use a cd transport for some time yet. Mine has S/PDIF and TOS outputs.
I've other digital sources (like SKY) that I'd like to be able to listen to through a great DAC (the way Linn have gone with their DS really locks other sources out - £10K for a DAC that you can only use via ethernet is ridiculous!)
2. Wireless streaming. Sure ethernet is better, and I hope you'll have that too, but again, my flat is old, over 2 levels, and laying ethernet cable would require tearing things up - so don't force me to do that, or make me mess around with dodgy ethernet over the mains stuff like Linn do, 'cos I'm not going to right now.
3. Sound quality should be beyond reproach. In particular, the source should not affect it. So, whether the bits come from a pc or a cd transport, if they are the same bits they should sound the same. The DAC should be independent of (reasonable) jitter in the source. A competently ripped cd should sound exactly the same as the same cd played from a competent transport. Presumably to cope with streamed data, the DAC will have memory inside it, out of which the data is clocked; data from other sources could be read into the same buffer. A small delay is quite acceptable. Of course, if you've found another way of insulating the thing from jitter, great - but however you do it, there should be no issues with cables/sources affecting the sound. Obviously, delay wouldn not be acceptable for all sources (ie those that need to sync with video).
3. I would hope you can get it right without having an external powersupply as an upgrade.
What do other people want/expect ...?
A volume control perhaps? (After all, with one it would be pre-amp in it's own right)
Balanced outputs? (Then professional use would be easy)
quote:
2. Wireless streaming. Sure ethernet is better, and I hope you'll have that too, but again, my flat is old, over 2 levels, and laying ethernet cable would require tearing things up - so don't force me to do that, or make me mess around with dodgy ethernet over the mains stuff like Linn do, 'cos I'm not going to right now.
You do know that wireless bridges exist?
No wireless if possible, thank you. Keeping the RF noise outside the case is much more important than convenience. I think that, most of us at least, are looking for sound quality first. Besides, a very decent wireless bridge is 50GBP, if you need it.
quote:Balanced outputs? (Then professional use would be easy)
? On a NAIM?
Let there just be a DIN
.quote:What about "sounds great" ?
You've obviously completely mis-understood the whole DAC discussion
quote:Oh and I forgot. It has to sound world class, make my coffee, create it's own music by communing with the spirits of the dead and cost roughly two bags of crisps.
...................is DAC short for Do All-things Cheaply then ?
quote:Originally posted by baz100:
...................is DAC short for Do All-things Cheaply then ?
Hoho - if it is not then it should be
quote:Posted Fri 27 February 2009 21:58 Hide Post
For the new NAIM DAC - I simply want a DAC - no streaming, no volume control, no headphones, no wireless, in fact no computer audio specific stuff at all and no switch mode PSU - just plain simple connections that one would usually expect from the very best DAC with an option to upgrade with an external PSU like the 555PS.
Why not give it a proper power supply so that it can work to its full potential without having to spend a further GBP5000?
quote:Originally posted by Keith L:quote:Posted Fri 27 February 2009 21:58 Hide Post
For the new NAIM DAC - I simply want a DAC - no streaming, no volume control, no headphones, no wireless, in fact no computer audio specific stuff at all and no switch mode PSU - just plain simple connections that one would usually expect from the very best DAC with an option to upgrade with an external PSU like the 555PS.
Why not give it a proper power supply so that it can work to its full potential without having to spend a further GBP5000?
Just use the 555PS that is with the CD player - there is no extra expense. I'm quite happy to swap cables - no hassle really.
Naim are bound to make it easy.
It has to sound a hell of lot better than a certain other DAC I've heard demo'd, but it is Naim so I'm sure it will
Proper PS, LOL. It will have more supply inboard than what many here already have included in the DACs that they're using. I bet it's a linear supply besides. Of course that doesn't guarantee a thing without a listen.
Of course that doesn't guarantee a thing without a listen.quote:Originally posted by ROTF:
For the new NAIM DAC - I simply want a DAC - no streaming, no volume control, no headphones, no wireless, in fact no computer audio specific stuff at all and no switch mode PSU - just plain simple connections that one would usually expect from the very best DAC with an option to upgrade with an external PSU like the 555PS.
Keep it simple and just make it the first stand alone DAC that I can enjoy.
The Uniti will do all the other stuff - so make the DAC a DAC. No funny software required,
That's my wish.
ATB Rotf
Rotf, this is not an attack at all, the great Dac battle last night on this forum was so munch fun I made popcorn ! I Agree with everything but ... " in fact no computer audio specific stuff at all .. " . Naim make some fantastic compact disc players which play compact discs really insanely well with no headphone jacks and no streaming and no "computer audio stuff" . If you go to the central Naim website, you can see the different models, I only heard the 555 for about an hour but it was an hour of trying my hardest not to wet my pants. In other words , why do you want a Naim Dac ?
Only the often, but not always great, Dali could paint the expression on my face if I paid a few thousand Pounds/Euros/Canadian dollars for a Naim Dac only to bring it home to discover to my horror that I could not plug my Mac (or someone else, a PC ) into it. I could care less what it looks like (chrome bumper would be sweet though ) but to alienate so many, so instantly, by not at least giving the option to plug in their " computer audio specific stuff ' into it would just be pure crackers-bonkers. I really think Naim has a very tough challenge with this DAC madness , but I think I can , with confidence , believe that they would not make a Dac and release it to the public , if it was not absolutely stellar. Naim was very late to the compact disc player game, but they now make some of the very few truly great CD players on the market, so Naim can take their time as far as I am concerned. I thought my girlfriend was silly when she bought an iPhone from that long and well established mobile phone company called Apple. Then I downloaded the App called "remote " and just grinned with joy that I was using the best remote control ever, and last week even laughed harder when I heard about about Nokia and Microsoft and RIM and all the other smart phone makers launching " App" stores to go along with their " smart" phones, so my only wish for the Naim Dac is that it makes the bits you put into it sound happy-dutch-girl great when they come out as sound, regardless of where those bits come from, which is the point of a Dac. Put as many jacks as you want in the back.
ok pubs are going to close here soon, so I have to step out and get a pint or three in....
oh, and none of the Naim compact disc players I mentioned use switch mode PSU's
joaquim
quote:Originally posted by ROTF:
I don't want the device to have Ethernet connectivity because then it'll be possible to connect it to a network, it'll then need an IP address and associated software and a firewall and .... no, no, no, no .... please not all that stuff .... just a nice simple piece of electronics with the Naim knowhow to make it sound stunning. I thought you could still plug a computer in using the digital out - a USB/Firewire interface would be fine I guess, as it is non-networked - as long as it has no other detrimental effects.
While I agree on the "no streaming, no volume control, no headphones", and the whole "just make it sound great" idea, I would like to remind you that you can leave the network cable unplugged
. While it is possible you're right, and we will not see a network port, probably because of the cost, I still think it would be a good add-on. And there should be no interference from an unused network port
.A network attachment would need an inboard player with a way to control it. That's a lot more than a DAC.quote:Originally posted by nkrgovic:quote:Originally posted by ROTF:
I don't want the device to have Ethernet connectivity because then it'll be possible to connect it to a network, it'll then need an IP address and associated software and a firewall and .... no, no, no, no .... please not all that stuff .... just a nice simple piece of electronics with the Naim knowhow to make it sound stunning. I thought you could still plug a computer in using the digital out - a USB/Firewire interface would be fine I guess, as it is non-networked - as long as it has no other detrimental effects.
While I agree on the "no streaming, no volume control, no headphones", and the whole "just make it sound great" idea, I would like to remind you that you can leave the network cable unplugged
While it is possible you're right, and we will not see a network port, probably because of the cost, I still think it would be a good add-on. And there should be no interference from an unused network port