New Naim DAC - wishlist
Posted by: likesmusic on 27 February 2009
Hi - I'm new to this forum, but the prospect of a NAIM DAC has really excited me, so firstly I'd like to say thanks to NAIM for evidently listening to their customers, existing and potential, by designing a DAC to meet their needs. In the hope that you're still listening, and things aren't too finalised, can I initiate a discussion about what people want from this product, starting with what (I think) I'd like ...
1. Generous connectivity. I want options to listen to cds, my sky-box, DVD, and direct from my laptop or streamed wirelessly from my pc.
Sure, when everything is ripped, I won't need a cd player, but I've thousands of cds yet to rip, and life is short and anyhow I still buy cds and want to play them straight away, so I'll need and use a cd transport for some time yet. Mine has S/PDIF and TOS outputs.
I've other digital sources (like SKY) that I'd like to be able to listen to through a great DAC (the way Linn have gone with their DS really locks other sources out - £10K for a DAC that you can only use via ethernet is ridiculous!)
2. Wireless streaming. Sure ethernet is better, and I hope you'll have that too, but again, my flat is old, over 2 levels, and laying ethernet cable would require tearing things up - so don't force me to do that, or make me mess around with dodgy ethernet over the mains stuff like Linn do, 'cos I'm not going to right now.
3. Sound quality should be beyond reproach. In particular, the source should not affect it. So, whether the bits come from a pc or a cd transport, if they are the same bits they should sound the same. The DAC should be independent of (reasonable) jitter in the source. A competently ripped cd should sound exactly the same as the same cd played from a competent transport. Presumably to cope with streamed data, the DAC will have memory inside it, out of which the data is clocked; data from other sources could be read into the same buffer. A small delay is quite acceptable. Of course, if you've found another way of insulating the thing from jitter, great - but however you do it, there should be no issues with cables/sources affecting the sound. Obviously, delay wouldn not be acceptable for all sources (ie those that need to sync with video).
3. I would hope you can get it right without having an external powersupply as an upgrade.
What do other people want/expect ...?
A volume control perhaps? (After all, with one it would be pre-amp in it's own right)
Balanced outputs? (Then professional use would be easy)
1. Generous connectivity. I want options to listen to cds, my sky-box, DVD, and direct from my laptop or streamed wirelessly from my pc.
Sure, when everything is ripped, I won't need a cd player, but I've thousands of cds yet to rip, and life is short and anyhow I still buy cds and want to play them straight away, so I'll need and use a cd transport for some time yet. Mine has S/PDIF and TOS outputs.
I've other digital sources (like SKY) that I'd like to be able to listen to through a great DAC (the way Linn have gone with their DS really locks other sources out - £10K for a DAC that you can only use via ethernet is ridiculous!)
2. Wireless streaming. Sure ethernet is better, and I hope you'll have that too, but again, my flat is old, over 2 levels, and laying ethernet cable would require tearing things up - so don't force me to do that, or make me mess around with dodgy ethernet over the mains stuff like Linn do, 'cos I'm not going to right now.
3. Sound quality should be beyond reproach. In particular, the source should not affect it. So, whether the bits come from a pc or a cd transport, if they are the same bits they should sound the same. The DAC should be independent of (reasonable) jitter in the source. A competently ripped cd should sound exactly the same as the same cd played from a competent transport. Presumably to cope with streamed data, the DAC will have memory inside it, out of which the data is clocked; data from other sources could be read into the same buffer. A small delay is quite acceptable. Of course, if you've found another way of insulating the thing from jitter, great - but however you do it, there should be no issues with cables/sources affecting the sound. Obviously, delay wouldn not be acceptable for all sources (ie those that need to sync with video).
3. I would hope you can get it right without having an external powersupply as an upgrade.
What do other people want/expect ...?
A volume control perhaps? (After all, with one it would be pre-amp in it's own right)
Balanced outputs? (Then professional use would be easy)
e-h thx!
Are there not also some differences in protocol that are important? Which clock/side has control over the stream etc? Don;t know myself but reading around have been left with the impression that there are differences outside of speed and CPU usage. May be completely wrong, of course
Are there not also some differences in protocol that are important? Which clock/side has control over the stream etc? Don;t know myself but reading around have been left with the impression that there are differences outside of speed and CPU usage. May be completely wrong, of course
Just gave it a bit of tought. This DAC is supposed to cost around 2000 GBP. For that money I can sell my Nait XS and but a SuperNait, with a DAC inside.
Ergo, the DAC should be on par with at least a NAC 202 / NAP 200 , and, preferably, on the same level as the NAC 282 / NAP 250 system, without a PSU upgrade. That means we should be looking at a DAC on the level with, say CD S3, upgradeable with XPS2/555PS. It turns out that this should be the, much requested, DAC S3 from this forum
. The only extra request that comes to mind is a 87mm high case. It's highly unlikely that anyone would use this with a system not that high. I'd even dare to say that 2000 GBP is cheap, that kind of a device can easily go for a 2500-3000 GBP at least.
The other request that comes to mind is the 5 series DAC. Cheaper, say in the 500-1000 GBP range, and in the 58 or 70mm high case. A Stageline case is also an excellent option, maybe upgradeable with a FlatCap 2X - so that we can have one FlatCap for a CD 5X and a Nait XS (or a NAC 122X), and the other one for a Stageline and DAC 5.
Ergo, the DAC should be on par with at least a NAC 202 / NAP 200 , and, preferably, on the same level as the NAC 282 / NAP 250 system, without a PSU upgrade. That means we should be looking at a DAC on the level with, say CD S3, upgradeable with XPS2/555PS. It turns out that this should be the, much requested, DAC S3 from this forum
. The only extra request that comes to mind is a 87mm high case. It's highly unlikely that anyone would use this with a system not that high. I'd even dare to say that 2000 GBP is cheap, that kind of a device can easily go for a 2500-3000 GBP at least. The other request that comes to mind is the 5 series DAC. Cheaper, say in the 500-1000 GBP range, and in the 58 or 70mm high case. A Stageline case is also an excellent option, maybe upgradeable with a FlatCap 2X - so that we can have one FlatCap for a CD 5X and a Nait XS (or a NAC 122X), and the other one for a Stageline and DAC 5.
I also apologise if I weren't clear. I've used the term "5 series DAC" in reference to earlier requests, just as a familiar name, and also because of the idea of using a Stageline case.
I used it more as a design and price point reference, than as a request for any special construction. I'd like the "donor", as Adam puts it, to be the best possible one, price permitting.
Another silly idea: make it just like a Stageline, without a PSU, and power it off a turntable output. That way any amp can have a cheap option, and if someone wants both a Stageline and a "DACline", he can just use an i-Supply, or a FlatCap to power them both.
Of course, keep the existing DAC, demoed in Bristol as a higher offer.
I used it more as a design and price point reference, than as a request for any special construction. I'd like the "donor", as Adam puts it, to be the best possible one
, price permitting. Another silly idea: make it just like a Stageline, without a PSU, and power it off a turntable output. That way any amp can have a cheap option, and if someone wants both a Stageline and a "DACline", he can just use an i-Supply, or a FlatCap to power them both.
Of course, keep the existing DAC, demoed in Bristol as a higher offer
.