Beethoven...is he any good...

Nah, Beethoven was deaf to the idea of good music........don't waste your time on him. Move right on to Webern, Schoenberg, and Berg.

quote:

Originally posted by Oldnslow:
Nah, Beethoven was deaf to the idea of good music........don't waste your time on him. Move right on to Webern, Schoenberg, and Berg.

Really? I thought he had quite the ear for it.

But I'd be obliged for a specific recommendation by the three you mention.

Some great music - before Beethoven - may be found among the works of Haydn.

I will post a few pointers tomorrow for you. As well as a few ideas to find from Mozart. And of course from Bach's contemporary Handel ...

ATB from George

No Beethoven collection is complete without Pollini's recordings of the late Piano Sonatas, esp. Op. 109/110/111.

As to your request for a Beethoven chamber music piece my suggestion would the the Piano Trio Op.87 "Archduke", perhaps the best piano trio ever written. A favorite is by the Florestan Trio on Hyperion, though there are many excellent performances available. Also his violin sonatas No.5 "Spring" and 9 "Kreutzer". Perhaps a CD of some of his famous piano sonatas "Moonlight", "Pathetique", and "Appasionata", maybe by Rudolf Serkin on Sony. Beethoven didn't really write small orchestral works, and I suggest a couple of his symphonies, perhaps No.3 "Eroica" and No.6 "Pastoral". Also his Violin Concerto and Piano Concertos 4 and 5. All these would be good places to start to investigate Beethoven in my opinion.

I would recommend this...



Amazon UK

I was lucky, picked it up in tesco's for 2 quid : >

It has helped me get into Beethoven. I've been listening to Mozart and Haydn for over 20 years but seemed to have missed out on Bach the first time around so i'm very happily catching up on him these days.
I’ve always believed in the idea that Beethoven's chamber musik is rather complicated, better appreciated for the advanced listener, or perhaps a musician's composer, so i rather like the idea of leaving his chamber works for when i'm older and retired with more free time, and I may use his chamber works for brain training : )

Debs

I think it fair to say he composed some good tunes.

I like the piano sonatas executed by Wilhelm Kempf. Symphonies : John Eliot Gardiner.

quote:

but seemed to have missed out on Bach the first time around so i'm very happily catching up on him these days.

Then may I say your wearing very well Ms. Nymph

If he'd been around today he'd have been rock and rolling with the rest of them - just think of that riff the opens the fifth and how can you say it is not up there with Smoke on the Water.

There are three sets of the string quartets by the Takacs Quartet on Decca - early, middle and late. These are really excellent, but beware if you buy one set you will end up with all three.

Nigel

The LSO live series of the Symphonies are very good.

This is crass.

As the OP said, "feeling childish". He should grow up!

quote:

Originally posted by graham55:
This is crass.

As the OP said, "feeling childish". He should grow up!

What is crass about asking advice from those who clearly have an interest in, and more knowledge of' the music I wish to explore?

I've already been pointed in the right direction by a kind fellow and others too regarding Bach. Very helpful indeed when starting from scratch, saving me money on duff recordings and more importantly, very valuable listening time.

So much so that after I have a start on Beethoven I intend to continue in the same fashion with Mozart (about a month from now).

mongo,

don't take any notice of forum negativity...

It's like the old joke of the baby boy who says to his mother, "Mum, when i grow up i want to be a man"

and his mother replies, "Don't be silly dear, you can't do both"

quote:

Originally posted by naim_nymph:
mongo,

don't take any notice of forum negativity...

It's like the old joke of the baby boy who says to his mother, "Mum, when i grow up i want to be a man"

and his mother replies, "Don't be silly dear, you can't do both"

Lol. A cheery jest. Cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by mongo:
... after I have a start on Beethoven I intend to continue in the same fashion with Mozart (about a month from now).

Beethoven only gets a month?

If he fits as well with the remnants of my mind as well as Bach, then he gets until my last day.

But I'd like to listen for a month (or so)to get a grasp of what i'm hearing before further expanding my classical collection.

Btw, this exploration i'm on is fantastic; never had so much musical fun and joy.

Another poster recommended the Gardiner/ORR Beethoven Symphonies. You said you wanted chamber works, but I have to say that poster was right. The Gardiner has been my favorite set of these symphonies for quite some time.

quote:

Originally posted by mongo:

quote:

Originally posted by graham55:
This is crass.

As the OP said, "feeling childish". He should grow up!

What is crass about asking advice from those who clearly have an interest in, and more knowledge of' the music I wish to explore?

I've already been pointed in the right direction by a kind fellow and others too regarding Bach. Very helpful indeed when starting from scratch, saving me money on duff recordings and more importantly, very valuable listening time.

So much so that after I have a start on Beethoven I intend to continue in the same fashion with Mozart (about a month from now).

Hi Mongo,

the ( chronological ) order Bach, Mozart, Beethoven ( but don`t forget Händel and Haydn ) makes more sense imo.

Manfred

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:
Another poster recommended the Gardiner/ORR Beethoven Symphonies. You said you wanted chamber works, but I have to say that poster was right. The Gardiner has been my favorite set of these symphonies for quite some time.

Not chamber works exclusively, but this form does seem to suit my tastes, at the moment anyway.

Symphonies are next and i have a page in my pad with about a dozen plus suggestions written on it and i've just added the Gardiner/ORR set.

In fact, now that i have the pad to hand, it's obvious that i have a sizable backlog of buying and listening to do. Daunting in many ways but also very much exciting.

quote:

Originally posted by Manni:

quote:

Originally posted by mongo:

quote:

Originally posted by graham55:
This is crass.

As the OP said, "feeling childish". He should grow up!

What is crass about asking advice from those who clearly have an interest in, and more knowledge of' the music I wish to explore?

I've already been pointed in the right direction by a kind fellow and others too regarding Bach. Very helpful indeed when starting from scratch, saving me money on duff recordings and more importantly, very valuable listening time.

So much so that after I have a start on Beethoven I intend to continue in the same fashion with Mozart (about a month from now).

Hi Mongo,

the ( chronological ) order Bach, Mozart, Beethoven ( but don`t forget Händel and Haydn ) makes more sense imo.

Manfred

Hi Manfred. I did consider that chronologically is the best way to proceed and i do have some Mozart including the Horn concertos, the Linn sacd of the last four symphonies, the Divertimenti, a Helios disc of the serenade k361, and a collection of collections (so to speak).

With Mozart however all i need help with is with recording /performance quality. Everything i've bought of the man has enthralled me more or less instantly.

Mongo, I wouldn't worry too much about chronology, you can sort that out later.

If I was going to tackle Mozart for the first time, and knew what I know now, I would buy a DVD of "The Magic Flute" and watch it many times.

One of Mozart's most endearing traits is his ability to write the most beautiful melodies you will ever hear. That is nowhere more apparent than in "The Magic Flute".

The first Beethoven Symphony to get attention should be the third, the "Eroica". That's the one that changed music forever.

Wish we lived closer. I have the feeling you would be fun to explore with.

Good luck and continue having a great time!

quote:

If anyone has any favourites among his chamber music, and smaller orchestral works or just sage advice, I'd be delighted to hear of it.

Best regards, Paul.

Paul,
I only have but a moment to quickly reply here but I have a couple of suggestions to start. Hopefully I'm not repeating too much of what anyone else has suggested as I did not have time to read everyone's reply.

First advise is to start small. See if you connect to who this man was and his characteristics. If you do connect with anything that you hear you will naturally investigate more and you will be amazed at what Beethoven left us. I would say Beethoven is one of my heros. So, is he any good? Different strokes for different folks but for me my life would be very different if I didn't have an in-depth relationship with the music of Beethoven. So YES, he IS good !!!

For piano, try some of the early Piano Sonatas (Opp. 2, 14,or 49). Also, try some Variations & Bagatelles. The well known little piece that every child knows, Für Elise, is from the Bagatelles Wo0 59. My favorite Variation is the 32 Variations in c minor.

For a mix between Piano Concerto/ Symphony / Choral I highly recommend the Choral Fantasia, Op. 80 in c minor. Helene Grimaud Credo disc I think has this on it. Then try out any of the 9 symphonies and the 5 Piano Concertos.

The chamber music is very dear to me as well. I really do have a hard time only recommending a few pieces because everything Beethoven did is great, IMHO, but...

Cello Sonatas (ie. Cello and Piano) - All great but the A major is a nice start. You can buy the complete Cello sonatas on 2 discs.

Violin Sonatas (ie Violin and Piano) - All great but most people would name the "Spring" or "Kreutzer" Sonata first. I personally like the c minor or a minor sonata. Their are 10 in total.

Piano Trio (Violin, Cello and Piano) - All great but try the Kakadu Variations or the e flat major variations then maybe the Op. 70 Trios which includes the "Ghost" Trio.

The Op. 11, B flat major Trio for Piano, Clarinet, and Cello is also a very nice starting point.

Quartets for Piano, violin, viola and cello are nice to. I think there are three in total. The E flat major has just a fantastic start that I like. Typical Beethoven.

String Quartets - All amazing but most distinguish the early, middle, and late period. I'd suggest something from the early period to start; Op 18 of which their are 6.

That's all I can say for now...
Regards,
Doug

Did you know, one of the Piano Trios opens with the Black Adder theme! Obviously, Beethoven got there first!

I think it's in G....