Avantgarde Uno speakers...

I listened to a pair of Duos for a time this summer at my dealer. They were fronted by a CDS2 and Art Audio tube amp (this is an integrated tube amp with a single input and a passive pre).

These are not flat earth speakers. They have no speed or punch, and the leading edge of notes is largely gone -- almost the perfect opposite of 'Briks or SBLs. There was also a strange effect produced by the directionality of the drivers; when you move on the vertical axis (i.e., stand up), the sound changes dramatically. I also felt like the (conventional) subwoofers didn't time so well with the horns.

That said, there were times when the effect produced was really fantastic. A brazilian brass band combo cd was incredible, and perfectly suited to what these do well-- providing a big, in-your-face soundstage. Rock music was more disappointing; possibly owing to the timing problem. Classical was very detailed but sounded dry and hard.

These can blow you away at first. But I strongly suspect that the effect could get tiresome over time.

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They have no speed or punch, and the leading edge of notes is largely gone

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Could this be a factor of the amps and source used in this demo? I mean, the one thing that these speakers ought to have is speed - and having dynamics way beyond anything a conventional box could produce for a given input (I'm guessing here). My amp is gonna be only a measly 23w (although with a state-of-the-art regulated PSU and custom designed caps and transistors, though I doubt this will make up for sheer grunt with more difficult speakers). The attraction of the horn loading approach is to compensate for my 'weedy' non-ferrous power amp

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

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Could this be a factor of the amps and source used in this demo? I mean, the one thing that these speakers ought to have is speed - and having dynamics way beyond anything a conventional box could produce for a given input

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They have plenty of dynamics, but not speed. In other words, they can fully reproduce a dynamic transient, but there is no feeling of an attack; it gets loud, but it doesn't punch. Or maybe better; they'll make your ears bleed, but not your nose.

I'm guessing too, but I don't think that this was due to the amp. Admittedly it was a measly 6wpc tube that I heard them with, but keep in mind that the subs are powered, and the load on the amp from the horns is tiny. So I doubt that big, fast power supplies and the like will make much difference to the speed issue.

FWIW, 23 wpc would be far beyond what you'd ever need for these.

They're certainly worth a listen -- the wow factor is very high at first. But if you value flat-earth characteristics you'll be disappointed.

TC,

The Avantgardes are a good choice, they're the best horn-loaded 'speakers I've heard and do the flat-earth thing too, so you won't be wasting your time with them. Be aware though, that the active subs won't be making best use of your DNMs.

While you're at it, do give the Living Voice OBX-Rs a *serious* audition. They really highlight the capability of your DNMs.

I'm sure the AV-Expo in Heathrow this weekend will yield other alternatives too.

Anyway, you may find your DNM power amp will have enough oomph to drive your NEATs.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Tip 1: Change your mains plug fuses at least once a year

Hi ya TC:
(that was my 'Benny The Ball' impersonation)

I heard the AGs with a Walker Proscenium TT and Clearaudio Reference cartridge on a tangential arm (can't remember the name) along with some big tubies from Italy at around 8wpc.

Certainly not my cup of tea as the system was way too round. ejl's comments are exactly what I found. I listened to Rickie Lee Jones 'Pop-pop' and it didn't make me want to take her to bed, - very unusual for a Rickie album.

Best Regards,
Mark Dunnn

TC OB

I was well impressed with AV Unos at one of the shows a couple of years ago. They were the ONLY speakers that brought an unsolicited S M I L E to my face. Main demo song was "Sing Sing Sing" from the "Swing Kids" sound track - a rerun of the Benny Goodman classic with killer drum fills.

Powered (sic) by some 10W of warm filament, there was more immediacy and presence than my £10K worth of Naim / Dynaudio can muster to this day. Those babies just get hold of you and say "Hello Big Boy". Not even the closed sesh DBL / NBL dems triggered the same gut reaction at the show.

If I could integrate the aesthetics with the rest of the house I'd buy them tomorrow.

Foret the flat v round earth thing - give 'em a listen. At that price you know you have to.

My only question concerns serious bass - can they handle St Germain, George Duke (It's On) etc. since the horns give over to cones at that juncture, and there has been some comment about integration & timing in that area.

Enjoy the quest.

Regards

Graeme
PS Think I'll take the Swing Kids CD to the show this coming weekend and see what happens

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I'm considering a pair of these (so far, based only on absolutely unamimous glowing reviews; auditions would be tricky but necessary if I were to seriously head down this route):

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I’ve only heard them at a couple of shows, and they did the typical horn dynamic freedom thing, but they didn’t remotely integrate or sound cohesive. The bass bin just sounded like it was part of another (truly awful) speaker, the mid and treble sounded strangely separate from one another. I suspect that in a massive room they would integrate better, but I can’t see the bass ever happening in a musical way. The bigger three horn ones sound way less buggered, but still don’t integrate properly to my ears.

I both love and hate horns. In my experience it is the single driver ones that are both the most successful and the most flawed. They are always hopelessly coloured (usually making Kans sound perfectly flat!), but they have a freedom and natural energy that conventional boxes don’t really do. I understand why people like horns, but I’d probably end up kicking them to death (despite holding them in much respect).

Tony.

I've not heard them so can't comment, but this topic has had the first and only negative comments which is refreshing.

I'll of course listen to the OBX-Rs should I feel a change to be necessary, and no doubt there will be other worthy speakers in the 90db+ category come that time. Or perhaps I'll be with my P/Gs until the day I pop my clogs.

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

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which are very good, but a forthcoming preamp upgrade (552 class)

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Hi TC, How do you know your pre-amp will be the in the '552 class' - have you been fortunate enough to do the dem already? Dev

ps. my local dealer doesn't have the 552

TC--

My dealer has a pair of the big AG's and ejl is DEAD ON in his description. If anything, they sound a bit mellow, have a definite horn coloration, and let's just say speed is not their bag.

On the plus side, they will go VERY loud with not much power, have excellent dynamics (meaning fine gradations from soft to loud and a wide range from soft to loud) and actually image and soundstage. They also have a great deal of bass depending on how the subs are dialled in.

Quite possibly the least flat speaker I've heard iin a long time.

Bo

The AGs are very good speakers, especially for vocals, but driven by 300Bs. IMHO, your amp will be too much for the 100db efficiency of the AGs, and they will not sound like they are supposed to.

The Living Voice OBX-R or even the Avatar at 94db, 6 ohms are more like it. They even work with my 135s, as well as a 200-watt Krell I have right now (but that's because Krell preamps have low gain). They're ported, but sound like sealed ones. I'm a dealer for these, so don't take my word. Rather, do have a serious listen, and bring your fastest or most complex CD along. Preferably with Naim amplification/source or their own Canary Audio LV tube amp. A speaker that combines the good qualities of Naim speakers and round earth, very rare.

Not as imposing and large as the AG, however, very unassuming, until you hear them ...

And to quote a horn man visitor, he said they sounded like horns in terms of their transients and dynamics.

I've heard the Duos a few times and these things do SCALE in a big way. Effortless dynamics. Not sure I could live with them though.

They were *too efficient* for the Naim preamps - both the 82 and 52 "hissed" like bastards through the Duos.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

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Hi TC, How do you know your pre-amp will be the in the '552 class' - have you been fortunate enough to do the dem already? Dev

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As very very few people have heard the pre-production DNM 3D series, I cannot say for sure. However, going on my dealer's experience (he has heard both 552 and 3D series, albeit seperately) he is certain that they are of similar performance levels, with each portraying slightly different cuts on the presentation but no one being 'ahead' in any particular area.

Knowing that our musical priorities are similar (my dealer is a Naim dealer and a DNM dealer and probably makes 5x more through the sale of Naim kit as DNM kit, at least) I take his impressions of either amp as unbiased.

Then again, until the 3D series is ready we won't know for sure. All I can say is that a 3C Six sounds to my ear somewhat better than a 52, yet is allegedly eclipsed by the corresponding PA3^S amplifier in terms of out-and-out musicality, the technology in which came too late for the 3C series preamps. The 3D series will exploit these advances - T-network this and 3D topography that, etc. - and so I am sure that the 3D Six will be comparable with the 552. Of course, only time will tell...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."