Vinyl to Hard Disk (24/96)

Jack

quote:

The question is whether it is worth recording vinyl onto hard disk in 24/96?

Cue Patrick (aka PC Stockton)....or do a search as there is quite a bit of stuff on here about it.

Cheers

Jim

Thanks Jim, should have searched first!!

Quite a bit of discussion with samples, I'll dig deeper.

jack

I have started to record my Vinyls with a Nagra V professional hard-disk recorder 96/24, (from Sequel, Aro, Rua, Superline, Supercap) this is jaw-dropping played with an HDX/555PS. Forget the CDs at this level of quality.
If your records are in good shape and you have a well set record player, there are no noises.

Manu,

How do you transfer the file onto the HDX from the V?

Hey Manu. Nagra's are great for this aren't they? I don't know if you've tried it but on the VI, we avoid the pre-recording preview circuit buffer and record in real time.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
Manu,

How do you transfer the file onto the HDX from the V?

Kuma, you don't. You store the recording on a PC or NAS and then connect this to the HDX via ethernet connection. The music is streamed to the HDX. These are the recordings that I've heard at PM since Ken started with the Nagra VI/SC with his LP12 set-up. They are incredible.

Overall opinion-- better than vinyl with an LP12 PRIORto the Superline. Top end set-up with Superline still the best. Now you can do anything with your music you want to and not deal with the physical medium. Always trade-offs involved.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
How do you transfer the file onto the HDX from the V?

As Gary said, on a NAS or a USB key.

A funny thing on that is the promo USB keys of Naim and Nagra are exacly the same (color excepted of course).

I have not played with the VI. With it's release, Nagra has offer (not for free...) their distributors a special edition of the V. So it was my Christmas present...

quote:

Originally posted by Manu:

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
How do you transfer the file onto the HDX from the V?

As Gary said, on a NAS or a USB key.

A funny thing on that is the promo USB keys of Naim and Nagra are exacly the same (color excepted of course).

I have not played with the VI. With it's release, Nagra has offer (not for free...) their distributors a special edition of the V. So it was my Christmas present...

I was referring to the preview circuit that is also on the V. The it allows you to here a sound before you hit the record button without missing a beat. Just a buffer but audible.

Gary & Manu,

Thanks for the info.

Gary,

What was the cartridge used for the LP12?
It's surprising that the vinyl is still better with that set up. What was missing from a 24/96 file?
I didin't realise you can utelise a SC with a Nagra ( that's really OTT! )

Has anyone compared other ADC such as Weiss or Apogee against the Nagra?

The formers seem to offer a better interface to a mac.

I've got a Rega P3 and have that connected to a stageline and then into my pre-amp (282). I'm using an M-audio 2496 card and am very pleased with the results. Indeed, the reason I asked the original question was that I compared the two i.e. the vinyl playing and hard disk recording (24/48) playing back through a Beresford DAC and preferred the hard disk recording.

Incidentally when recoding I am taking a feed from the aux output on my hi-cap and connecting that to the audio in on the M-audio. I have to use the volume on my 282 to control the levels. Is that most optimal way of connecting do you think?

Thanks

Jack

Jack,

How are you playing back the file?

It's actually a HC on the VI and the SC is on the SL. Easy to confuse as it's all together. It's what Paul heard (dig copy) on his visit. We have to start the VI on battery and switch over as the regulator's 500ma trip can't supply enough boot current for everything but is plenty there after.

js,

Ah.. nice. Any modifications done to the HC to connect to the VI?

What is the cartridge you are using for an LP12?

I am surprised that with all that technology, analogue still rulz. ( but if there is an HDS type of player, maybe the table could be turned...)

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
js,

Ah.. nice. Any modifications done to the HC to connect to the VI?

What is the cartridge you are using for an LP12?

I am surprised that with all that technology, analogue still rulz. ( but if there is an HDS type of player, maybe the table could be turned...)

Well, Ken has been doing 24/96 original recordings that are different but just as good as the analog and better than the analog after dig transfer so dig actually kinda rules. Great mic pre's. No mods to HC other than resister value to get the right voltage of the regulator. Naim approved.

js,

do you clean up anything with a Protool afterwards?

I guess if the original recording is done in digital, I see the digital transfer would be a less of an issue.

When I hear an old jazz recording form 50s and 60s tho, I am curious how the new digital media deals with it to preserve the vinyl magic. ( there's something inherently right about listening to those old recordings on vinyl for some reasons )

Kuma,

Playing back the recorded file from my music server (SqueezeCenter) and then through Beresford DAC into 282.

Jack

I used two channel Mytek and Lavry A/Ds, 8 channel Mytek A/D/D/A (directly with firewire to the Macbook) for digitizing Lps and they are perfectly acceptable, I would say 95 - 99% identical to the original vinyl. However if you connect the A/D directly to the D/A and does not record but listen only without a computer I would say it is practically 100% (using AES/EBU connection between the A/D and D/A) identical. Strange. If you record the file and play back later the sound will be a little bit different than the real-time back and forth conversion. No idea why. Very similar result with the battery driven Altmann A/D and D/A, 16 bit only but sounds wonderful.

There is an interesting thing, the software and DSP - based RIAA correction, the Pure Vinyl software for Mac. I have a new Lavry MP10 microphone amp, which has an input setting specially for ribbon mics: 75 dB gain and low input impedance. Can be ideal to get a gain for a low output MC cartridge. Than through an A/D converter, you can send the amplified, digitized, but NOT RIAA corrected signal to the computer where a special software will render the RIAA in real-time (up to 192 Hz). Very easy to edit the tracks using track markers. I have everything to try, the software, the mic pre, the A/D, just do not have time to deal with it. It would be nice to find others whom tried this method. If we are careful with the levels for the incoming non-corrected digital signal, it can be quite good.

Thanks ference,

Does one needs to be a geek to perform the transfer from vinyl to HD perfectly?

Does various ADC vary the results ?
Interesting you are using the Lavry AD.

A Nagra seems to be the holy grail ( and looks so cute ), but I wonder how it does compared to others.

Jack,

I assume you are streaming wirelessly then?

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

Does one needs to be a geek to perform the transfer from vinyl to HD perfectly?

Kinda, yes... but man is it worth it.

Mine were done when I was very green in this field, by my Distributed Audio mentors.

One had a Benchmark ADC and an decked out LP12... The other, not sure and have lost touch over the last couple years. But it was a Music Hall TT i think....

how many albums did you transfer and how long did it take you? ( I assume they are all done in 24/96 ? )

Is it faster to do it in 32/192

Going back to Jack's original question:
is it worth it to rip in 24/96 or higher?

I've never tried higher.
I have the feeling the sample rate is more important than the number of bits over 16/44.1.
I have not really tried the intermediate options but to me the 16/48 is already a big improvment over the 44.1.
All that in the context of vinyl recording only.

The A2D should be the easier of the 2 processes and yes 24/96 is definitely worth it. Seems about the sweet spot. I completely understand what ferenc is talking about in the transfers vs direct etc. Both are bit perfect but still sound different. Happens all the time though I know that goes against the board mantra.
It's why I mentioned the preview bit on the Nagra earlier. It's bit perfect also.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
how many albums did you transfer and how long did it take you? ( I assume they are all done in 24/96 ? )

300ish? and the better part of two years. And yes, all but a few i was given are 24/96. I have a couple ultra rare and polystyrene 7" transfers that I was gifted, in 16/44 but only 4 or 5. For example, some Frank Zappa flexi-discs.

Worth to rip in 24/96, yes and I would venture to say that unless you want to burn to a CD, it is the only way. Although they are HUGE files. I think my red vinyl Japan-Toshiba George Harrison's All Things Must Pass is 1.4 GBs.

It is easy enough to dither the 24/96s to 16/44 for burning to CD for your car...

Higher than 24/96? Well if you have an ADC that can do it, the requisite player that will handle the files, and large enough storage, go for it!

I imagine 32/196 will be used used enough. I am just not sure there is hardware to support it now.