Possible upgrade for me-- 82 vs. XPS vs. 250?
Posted by: onlythat on 22 December 2002
What with the selling off of the old for the new, I think it is that time. Currently CDX/72/Hi/140/NEAT Mystiques.
My NAIM guru in New York says, though it runs a bit counter to forum wisdom, he would suggest the 82 as best bang for the buck.
He feels that with an XPS, I will soon want an 82 anyway for the extra musical info (and remote!) and that a 250 might be mulletizing a tad and that I'd soon want an 82 again for balance. All three units are available at decent prices. (I do like the idea of remote volume).
Comments/experiences? Thanks a lot.
David
PS--Incidentally, there is also the option, (but it would be a bitch, as I'd have to sell like three pieces of equipment to afford it including my CDX) of a CDS2. Is this not a good idea with a 72/hi/140 from a balance standpoint?
My NAIM guru in New York says, though it runs a bit counter to forum wisdom, he would suggest the 82 as best bang for the buck.
He feels that with an XPS, I will soon want an 82 anyway for the extra musical info (and remote!) and that a 250 might be mulletizing a tad and that I'd soon want an 82 again for balance. All three units are available at decent prices. (I do like the idea of remote volume).
Comments/experiences? Thanks a lot.
David
PS--Incidentally, there is also the option, (but it would be a bitch, as I'd have to sell like three pieces of equipment to afford it including my CDX) of a CDS2. Is this not a good idea with a 72/hi/140 from a balance standpoint?
Posted on: 22 December 2002 by kan man
CDS2
Festive regards
Steve
Festive regards
Steve
Posted on: 22 December 2002 by onlythat
to thee in fair Kanland. Yes, CDS2 seems the easy choice, but with a 72?? I would think it would be a bottleneck of sorts, no?
Posted on: 22 December 2002 by Bob Edwards
If you can get a CDS2, go for it! A 72 is plenty good enough to let you hear how great the CDS2 is.
If you can't swing a CDS2, then the XPS sounds like the right way to go. CDX/XPS into 72/Hi/140 would terrific (don't know your speakers, so going on faith the 140 drives them well). I've owned both combos, and the CDX/XPS/72/Hi sounds more musical/tuneful/better to me than a CDX/82/hicap.
Best,
Bob
If you can't swing a CDS2, then the XPS sounds like the right way to go. CDX/XPS into 72/Hi/140 would terrific (don't know your speakers, so going on faith the 140 drives them well). I've owned both combos, and the CDX/XPS/72/Hi sounds more musical/tuneful/better to me than a CDX/82/hicap.
Best,
Bob
Posted on: 22 December 2002 by kan man
Hi David
Yes - the 72 is a bottleneck and a narrower one than an 82, 52 or 552 and one of these will make your setup better. But... a CDS2 is a much better source to start with and most of the music will get through.
Regards
Steve
Yes - the 72 is a bottleneck and a narrower one than an 82, 52 or 552 and one of these will make your setup better. But... a CDS2 is a much better source to start with and most of the music will get through.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 22 December 2002 by Jay
I agree mostly with Alex in his advice apart from going with an XPS instead of an 82. Personally I'd have to go with the 82 - I never really go on with my 72 and I think the 82's a step in the right direction and you still retain sistem balance.
Try before you buy obviously. The 102/82/52 all have quite a different approach to music than the 72. You may or may not like it. Because it will be quite different, give it some time, a week if possible.
Obviously if you don't like the 82, go for the XPS. S'pose you can't lose really!
Jay
PS Other 82 benefits? More lights than a Xmas tree (handy for this time of year), remote control, betters your turnable as well, easy to "top up" with another hi-cap if you're feeling the need!
Yabba, dabba, doooooo
Try before you buy obviously. The 102/82/52 all have quite a different approach to music than the 72. You may or may not like it. Because it will be quite different, give it some time, a week if possible.
Obviously if you don't like the 82, go for the XPS. S'pose you can't lose really!
Jay
PS Other 82 benefits? More lights than a Xmas tree (handy for this time of year), remote control, betters your turnable as well, easy to "top up" with another hi-cap if you're feeling the need!
Yabba, dabba, doooooo
Posted on: 22 December 2002 by Don Atkinson
I used to have (LP12/Grace/Supex)/12s/160/JR149.(CD hadn't been invented !!)
When the time came for upgrade the choice was
Ittok
Asak
32.5
250
Isobariks
I auditioned the lot (at Naim) and bought the Isobariks, because they delivered a better impresion of bass and the overall sound was reasonably well balanced ie a good compromise.
Then i bought a hicap/250 for exactly the same reason.
Then the 32.5, which opened the window on detail.
and finally an Ittok/Troika.
These took place over about 2 years.
Next up was a 72 to replace the 32.5, then an Ecos to replace the Ittok and an Arkiv to replace the Troika. The 72 was only a marginal improvement on the 32.5.
I added a cdsi, (but it still doesn't quite match the LP12/ecos/Arkiv even with a cdsii front end)
An 82 replaced the 72, but even with a 2nd hicap athen a supercap I never felt it was a big improvement on the 72 (or 32.5). But the 52......well that WAS a big leap forward.
If you can audition all your options sensibly, then your ears will tell you which way to go. Based on my experience and my preferences for compromise in the sound of hi-fi (yes even cd500/552/500/XXXspeakers are compromised!) I would buy the 250 first, then the xps. I would give the 82 a miss and go for a 52/supercap and finally a cdsii.
Cheers
Don
PS don't get hung up on the volume controls. They are a bit coarse and I nearly always manage to get the volume right from memory. trying to make fine adjustments on the remote is a waste of time.
When the time came for upgrade the choice was
Ittok
Asak
32.5
250
Isobariks
I auditioned the lot (at Naim) and bought the Isobariks, because they delivered a better impresion of bass and the overall sound was reasonably well balanced ie a good compromise.
Then i bought a hicap/250 for exactly the same reason.
Then the 32.5, which opened the window on detail.
and finally an Ittok/Troika.
These took place over about 2 years.
Next up was a 72 to replace the 32.5, then an Ecos to replace the Ittok and an Arkiv to replace the Troika. The 72 was only a marginal improvement on the 32.5.
I added a cdsi, (but it still doesn't quite match the LP12/ecos/Arkiv even with a cdsii front end)
An 82 replaced the 72, but even with a 2nd hicap athen a supercap I never felt it was a big improvement on the 72 (or 32.5). But the 52......well that WAS a big leap forward.
If you can audition all your options sensibly, then your ears will tell you which way to go. Based on my experience and my preferences for compromise in the sound of hi-fi (yes even cd500/552/500/XXXspeakers are compromised!) I would buy the 250 first, then the xps. I would give the 82 a miss and go for a 52/supercap and finally a cdsii.
Cheers
Don
PS don't get hung up on the volume controls. They are a bit coarse and I nearly always manage to get the volume right from memory. trying to make fine adjustments on the remote is a waste of time.
Posted on: 22 December 2002 by plynnplynn
quote:
An 82 replaced the 72, but even with a 2nd hicap athen a supercap I never felt it was a big improvement on the 72 (or 32.5).
Personally I found the 82 a dramatic improvement over the 32.5 with a single HiCap. I have never owned a 72 and so cannot comment about that.
Terry
Posted on: 22 December 2002 by Don Atkinson
Personally I found the 82 a dramatic improvement......
and I am sure many others would hear a similar improvement.
If I were Onlythat and I were about to buy an 82 under the circumstances described, I would try to audition a 52/supercap first to see whether the interim step of 82 represented a good compromise. To my ears it doesn't, but then thats the vaugaries of hi-fi compromises, IMHO. Others might feel that the 82 delivers (say) 75% of the 52 at less than half the price... go for it!!
Of couse finances are important. I bought my 82 because of financial limitations so I didn't audition the 52/supercap first. I might be wrong, but I get the impression that Onlythat has a bit of flexibility in his budget. And if not now, he might well have by the time he considers the preamp change.
Cheers
Don
and I am sure many others would hear a similar improvement.
If I were Onlythat and I were about to buy an 82 under the circumstances described, I would try to audition a 52/supercap first to see whether the interim step of 82 represented a good compromise. To my ears it doesn't, but then thats the vaugaries of hi-fi compromises, IMHO. Others might feel that the 82 delivers (say) 75% of the 52 at less than half the price... go for it!!
Of couse finances are important. I bought my 82 because of financial limitations so I didn't audition the 52/supercap first. I might be wrong, but I get the impression that Onlythat has a bit of flexibility in his budget. And if not now, he might well have by the time he considers the preamp change.
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 22 December 2002 by onlythat
The reason I have some flexibility is the sale of my current items. For instance, to get a CDS2, I would have to sell my CDX and my extra pair of round-earth speakers then add about 1200 bucks.
On the other hand, to get the XPS, I would have to take the proceeds from my round earth speakers and add only about 600 bucks.
Now to get an 82, I would have to sell my round-earth speakers and my 72 and only have to put in about 300 bucks.
So the 82 makes the most sense from a budgetary standpoint, but I am hearing a lot of mixed reviews here about making it the next step.
Perhaps the XPS DOES make the most sense as the fellow NAIMIE above (no, not God-- the guy in the thread) says he KNOWS i'm gonna upgrade in the future and an XPS goes with a CDS2 head unit as well.
But an 82 certainly makes the most financial sense (well, actually doing nothing does,but we KNOW that's not gonna happen). Just worried if I'll prefer it to my 72.
Incidentally, can anyone comment as to whether they think XPSing my CDX will make as wonderful a musical difference as HI-Capping my 72 did? If so, sign me up!!
On the other hand, to get the XPS, I would have to take the proceeds from my round earth speakers and add only about 600 bucks.
Now to get an 82, I would have to sell my round-earth speakers and my 72 and only have to put in about 300 bucks.
So the 82 makes the most sense from a budgetary standpoint, but I am hearing a lot of mixed reviews here about making it the next step.
Perhaps the XPS DOES make the most sense as the fellow NAIMIE above (no, not God-- the guy in the thread) says he KNOWS i'm gonna upgrade in the future and an XPS goes with a CDS2 head unit as well.
But an 82 certainly makes the most financial sense (well, actually doing nothing does,but we KNOW that's not gonna happen). Just worried if I'll prefer it to my 72.
Incidentally, can anyone comment as to whether they think XPSing my CDX will make as wonderful a musical difference as HI-Capping my 72 did? If so, sign me up!!
Posted on: 22 December 2002 by onlythat
I can't actually LISTEN to any of this stuff because it's gonna be purchased...
[everybody quiet now so Chris and the boys dont hear]...
Second Hand.
[everybody quiet now so Chris and the boys dont hear]...
Second Hand.
Posted on: 22 December 2002 by Bob Edwards
Remember how big the improvement was when you added a hicap? Now double it--at least. That is how large an improvement the XPS makes.
Bob
Bob
Posted on: 22 December 2002 by Phil Barry
Why not pick up an 82 and hold the 72 until you make a choice?
Personally, I had a similar choice when I upgraded my 72/hi/140, except I didn't listen to CD much. I had an 82 for a 3 day period, and it was better in a hifi way, but not in involvement. I got a 250. A year later, I got the 82 followed in 5 months by a 2nd hicap. It was the right choice, at least for me - now the system is tremendously involving.
I don't think the 72 will be outclassed by the CDS2.
Enjoy your choice.
Phil
Personally, I had a similar choice when I upgraded my 72/hi/140, except I didn't listen to CD much. I had an 82 for a 3 day period, and it was better in a hifi way, but not in involvement. I got a 250. A year later, I got the 82 followed in 5 months by a 2nd hicap. It was the right choice, at least for me - now the system is tremendously involving.
I don't think the 72 will be outclassed by the CDS2.
Enjoy your choice.
Phil
Posted on: 22 December 2002 by onlythat
interesting, but I dont think the guy I buy the 82 from will let me demo it for a bit and send it back if I dont like it.
Now, without wanting to open another can o' worms,
what about this 140 v. 250 comparison?? Is the 250 in your opinion just more power/bass etc., or is it a genuine upgrade in terms of PRaT and other musically significant stuff?
Now, without wanting to open another can o' worms,
what about this 140 v. 250 comparison?? Is the 250 in your opinion just more power/bass etc., or is it a genuine upgrade in terms of PRaT and other musically significant stuff?
Posted on: 23 December 2002 by Phil Barry
Um...I meant that you'd have to buy the 82, make a decision, and then sell the 2nd best.
I don't know the new 250. I do know that I rarely play music loud (CD and FM is generally at 7:30 or 8 o'clock, LP has been getting louder 9-11 :-)), but I thought the old 250 was a MAJOR upgrade.
Music sounded much more coherent through the 250.
That may be dynamics, or it may be timing, but I don't really care.
Regards.
Phil
I don't know the new 250. I do know that I rarely play music loud (CD and FM is generally at 7:30 or 8 o'clock, LP has been getting louder 9-11 :-)), but I thought the old 250 was a MAJOR upgrade.
Music sounded much more coherent through the 250.
That may be dynamics, or it may be timing, but I don't really care.
Regards.
Phil
Posted on: 23 December 2002 by onlythat
I was speaking of the "old" 250 i.e. the olive green good ol' boy. You say you heard major improvements with this 250 over a 140? All around improvements?
Though, if an XPS really does make THAT much difference, maybe that's the true way.
David
Though, if an XPS really does make THAT much difference, maybe that's the true way.
David
Posted on: 23 December 2002 by NB
It has to be the 82 first!!
I am going to go against the normal advice of XPS first as I beleive that the biggest gain is going to be had by purchasing a 82. Sure the XPS is going to improve the CDX but the 82 is really going to open up the picture.
When you have purchased the 82 and it has settled down that is the time to go for the XPS. I believe that a CDX/82/140 is going to be more balanced than a CDX/XPS/72.
Regards
NB
I am going to go against the normal advice of XPS first as I beleive that the biggest gain is going to be had by purchasing a 82. Sure the XPS is going to improve the CDX but the 82 is really going to open up the picture.
When you have purchased the 82 and it has settled down that is the time to go for the XPS. I believe that a CDX/82/140 is going to be more balanced than a CDX/XPS/72.
Regards
NB
Posted on: 23 December 2002 by Bob Edwards
I'm sorry to be blunt, but you are just wrong. A CDX/XPS/72/Hicap will musically murder a CDX/82/Hicap. Sorry, but it is true.
An 82 might be the right decision, though, depending on availability and price. However, in purely performance terms the XPS wins, hands down, no comparison, etc etc.
Best Regards and happy holidays,
Bob
An 82 might be the right decision, though, depending on availability and price. However, in purely performance terms the XPS wins, hands down, no comparison, etc etc.
Best Regards and happy holidays,
Bob
Posted on: 23 December 2002 by Don Atkinson
Phil Barry made a very valid point about buying secondhand.
You pay for the item of choice (say an 82 - buy I would buy the 250) try it out at leisure, at home, in your own system for as long as you like, making endless comparisons with the kit its about to replace......then you decide which item to sell. Providing you buy at the right price, you won't loose out if you sell the new item after a few weeks.
You're then free to try the next item on your list.
OK, you don't get A/B comparisons between the two new items (unless you borrow some money for a short while) but most of us should be able to make a good decision, even on a single item.
Perhaps a bit fiddly and time-consuming and not entirely without risk.......or you go to a good dealer and pay the full asking price, again, not entirely without risk...
Cheers
Don
You pay for the item of choice (say an 82 - buy I would buy the 250) try it out at leisure, at home, in your own system for as long as you like, making endless comparisons with the kit its about to replace......then you decide which item to sell. Providing you buy at the right price, you won't loose out if you sell the new item after a few weeks.
You're then free to try the next item on your list.
OK, you don't get A/B comparisons between the two new items (unless you borrow some money for a short while) but most of us should be able to make a good decision, even on a single item.
Perhaps a bit fiddly and time-consuming and not entirely without risk.......or you go to a good dealer and pay the full asking price, again, not entirely without risk...
Cheers
Don