Joni Mitchell, Wild things run fast

A couple of months ago I would have agreed with you. However I'm getting into "Blue" quite a bit more. In a similar way to the final half of her Ladies of the Canyon album, the sparse arrangement really showcases her awesome voice.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"

I have most of Joni's albums but one has eluded me until last week.

This is Don Juan's Reckless Daughter. This album is well worth a listen .. superbly recorded complete with African drumming on one track!

While on the subject.. there is an absolutely stunning version of "A Case of You" played just with vocal and piano as an encore by Diana Krall on her "Live in Paris" DVD.
This DVD is first rate what a wonderful synergy between Diana, Anthony Wilson (Guitar), Geoff Hamilton (Drums) and John Clayton (Bass).

I would rate this album as close to the worst of everything that she's done to date. It comes off as her attempt to be a hip rocker, and she didn't have the formula right. Dog Eat Dog was still quite commercial in its approach, but it added a quirkiness that made the album intriguing. It is MUCH better than Wild Things Run Fast. After that I think she realized that she wasn't be true to herself, and the following albums are much improved and more "natural".

Court & Spark is definitely one of my favourites (running a close tie with Hejira). It's hard to rate her albums against each other, though, because her music changed so much through the years. It's almost as if she's really five different artists:

• simple folk - Clouds, Ladies of the Canyon
  
• quirky folk - Court & Spark, Hejira
  
• stylistically experimental - Hissing of Summer Lawns, Don Juan's Reckless Daughter
  
• "pop" - Wild Things Run Fast, Dog Eat Dog
  
• "personal" - Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm, Turbulent Indigo
  

I know these aren't perfect categories, but hopefully they get the point across. Joni Mitchell has evolved steadily and significantly over her career. It's almost always well done, though, and I heartily recommend buying everything that you can afford.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

No worries there Mike, I am always on the lookout for Joni's stuff and usually it can be found on vinyl dirt cheap.

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No worries there Mike, I am always on the lookout for Joni's stuff and usually it can be found on vinyl dirt cheap.

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The vinyl copies of all the Joni albums I have compared really kicks the crap out of the CDs (the current HDCD ones, not checked against any others). Its different bloody music!

I landed a really clean gatefold copy of Ladies of the Canyon at the weekend for a quid. Its a great album, rapidly becoming one of my favourites of hers. I definitely prefer her earlier stuff, Hejira is where it all starts going a bit pear shaped for me, though I love Court and Hissing. I now just need Song for a Seagull, Clouds and For the Roses and I've got all the ones I want i.e. complete up to Hejira.

Tony.

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Tony - I have just realised your vocation - why worry about an IT job when you really need to run a second hand record store?

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I've done it in the past! When I'm out of work which I have been at quite a few times in the past I do fall back on it to land a bit of beer money. The trouble is that these days its really hard to find enough stuff to sell. Its a supplimentary income rather than a full one, though I am considering trying a bit of whole collection clearance if I can find any going (I still have a little capital that I need to put to work).

I was really luck last week as there is a record fair in New Brighton every six months that does have a lot of usable cheap stuff. I also cleared Sifters in Burnage Manchester out on Tue with Bob McCluckie. I did really well there, I landed a good 75 quids worth for £18.50, but in typical vinyl addict fashion I'm keeping most of it! I'll break even as I bought one to sell to pay for the rest.

Tony.

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The vinyl copies of all the Joni albums I have compared really kicks the crap out of the CDs (the current HDCD ones, not checked against any others). Its different bloody music!

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I have to disagree with you here on this one. I also have the gatefold copy of Ladies of the Canyon, along with the HDCD version of the CD. The CD is obviously better than the vinyl in every way (albeit the comparison was done with a CDS2 versus a RegaP3/DX4Mk2).

It almost has me thinking that there's something wrong with my turntable. Pianos seem a little too "honky tonk", and flattop acustic guitars sometimes lean towards the resonator variety. I suppose this would be called "flutter". Is this just because I've got a mere P3, or is there a problem to be fixed? Although the turntable is a few years old, it's had less than 100 hours of play.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

[This message was edited by Mike Hanson on THURSDAY 25 July 2002 at 15:02.]

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It almost has me thinking that there's something wrong with my turntable. Pianos seem a little too "honky tonk", and guitars sometimes lean towards the resonator variety. I suppose this would be called "flutter". Is this just because I've got a mere P3, or is there a problem to be fixed? Although the turntable is a few years old, it's had less than 100 hours of play.

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Sounds like either something is wrong with the Rega or that your record is an eccentric pressing (i.e. the hole is not correctly centred). I have two systems, and I'd take Joni on the CDX against my Planar 3 / AT95E into the Nait 1, but the LP12 / Ittok / MC25FL / Microgroove blows the CD out the bloody door.

As for the Rega, buy a new belt, clean the inner platter and pulley, and check the main bearing for wear. Top it up with a few drops of good quality 80-90 weight motor oil, and you should be fine.

I listened to some original Nick Drake pressings round at Bob McCluckie's the other day (he's got all three, the bastard), and the vinyl is in a whole different league to the CDs, its like hearing the muisc for the first time (and I've heard the CDs on a few CDS2 - DBL level systems). Source first, the record is the most important part of a system! (notice I say bloody record!).

Tony.

I'll have a chat with my dealer, and get the belt ordered. He's intending to come over to my place for a visit in the near future, so perhaps I'll just have him do the work.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

1) Wild Things Run Fast is a superb album, but I would not necessarily start with that album from her middle period. Like others who have already posted, I would start with "Heijera", then "Hissing Of Summer Lawns", and if you grow to like this jazz inspired period of her music, you will want it all. The dean of American High-end audio writers, Harry Pearson always ranked "Wild Things" as one of the best recorded albums available.

2) Joni's music is best appreciated on LP, but the recent HDCD's are, to my ears, preferrable to the previous issues on CD.

She also has a nice concert DVD featuring her current approach and band, recorded in a small club in LA in the late 90's if you watch as well as listen to your music.

Enjoy.

In my view, Joni Mitchell is a genius, one of the all-time truly great visionaries. Her crowning achievement is the string of her first eight studio albums, masterpieces all:

Song To A Seagull
Clouds
Ladies Of The Canyon
Blue
For The Roses
Court And Spark
The Hissing Of Summer Lawns
Hejira

Also eminently notable are the excellent Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and Mingus and the two excellent live albums, Miles Of Aisles and Shadows And Light.

After Mingus, beginning with Wild Things Run Fast, her highly inspired musical gift for melody and harmony dissipates, resurfacing on occasion (especially on her strongest latter day work, Turbulent Indigo), but never again shining with the unvarying strength of those first eight albums, a body of brilliantly inspired work nearly unmatched in consistency by anyone in any genre of popular music: The Beatles, yes, but Joni did it alone; Jimi Hendrix might have but his life was tragically cut short; Stevie Wonder's early musical oeuvre was a long, brilliant run but cannot come close to matching Joni for lyrics; James Taylor has produced a long string of consistently great work but lacks the genre-blurring visionary scope of Joni's or The Beatles. Really, when one gets right down to it, her closest counterpart with a long consistent stretch of visionary magnificence is Miles Davis (and it's interesting to note both his and Joni's collaborations with fellow geniuses Wayne Shorter and Herbie Hancock), but then Miles didn't write lyrics.

Although I have been largely frustrated by her post-Mingus work, my disappointment does not diminish the magnitude of her earlier accomplishment in the slightest.

I dunno
You pick him up from the station, take him to Sifters, feed him, give in to his pleas to hear all 3 Nick Drake vinyl albums all the way through, take him back to the station and then he calls you a BASTARD!!!

Fred has thrown down the gauntlet! I would agree with his enthusiastic endorsement of her spectacular work, although I would tend to add that the list of genius level artists from the rock era should be expanded to include Bob Dylan, Brian Wilson, Jerry Garcia, Paul Simon, Richard Thompson,Van Moorison,... What is evident from that list is how few women have been able to create a body of work at the level Joni has, and that she is truely speaking one of a small handful of the era's finest artists.

I find that even Joni's least interesting albums reward repeat listening, and I would point those who have not spent much time with her post folk work (Blue, Lady's..., Roses)that there is much to like in her recordings. Of the recent, my favorite is Turbulent Indigo, which I find rich and rewarding, but I also love Night Ride Home.

Cheers,

Bruce

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Originally posted by bdnyc:
Fred has thrown down the gauntlet! I would agree with his enthusiastic endorsement of her spectacular work, although I would tend to add that the list of genius level artists from the rock era should be expanded to include Bob Dylan, Brian Wilson, Jerry Garcia, Paul Simon, Richard Thompson,Van Moorison,...

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I like these artists very much, too (some more than others ... Dylan, Wilson, Simon), but Dylan's music (the actual music itself) pales next to Joni's, Wilson's lyrics can't begin to compare; Simon comes closest in both music and lyrics but for the most part lacks Joni's visionary genre-busting legacy, at least until his African and Brazilian fusions, which, while exciting on some levels, mostly rhythmic, cannot match Joni's music for melodic/harmonic interest. Not to mention that Joni had paved the way long ago in this area with her use of Burundi drums on The Jungle Line (The Hissing Of Summer Lawns), Dreamland, and The Tenth World (Don Juan's Reckless Daughter).

And when one figures in, along with her far-reaching musical vision, her use of musicians like Wayne Shorter, Jaco Pastorius, Herbie Hancock, et al., no one can compare.

In reviewing my previous post, I realized that there is one musician whose body of work has maintained consistently inspired brilliance throughout, unflagging genius and visionary scope: Pat Metheny, and his streak of masterwork has continued unabated now for 25 years. But ... no lyrics. And to be additionally fair to Joni, much of his best work has been in collaboration with Lyle Mays, although his solo work is magnificent. By the way, both Metheny and Mays (along with Jaco, Michael Brecker, and Don Alias) are essential contributors to Joni's groundbreaking live album Shadows And Light, further evidence of Joni's similarity to Miles Davis in her astute choice in side-musicians.

Humm, I plumbed for an album I got this weekend called White Man Blues.

Its essentially the usual suspects but just kind of jamming really.

Did little to physically cool me, but was well chilled.

I've noticed the sonic nature of this myself, and I suspect it's intentional. Although it's not a typical "hi fi" recording, it's got a "warm & fuzzy" demeanor that can seem quite dreamy and pleasant.

Sometimes this can be taken to an extreme. I really enjoyed the texture of Seal's second album, which had a similar sonic appearance to Taming the Tiger: it was dense, complex and warm. With his third album, Human Being, the effect was far too pronounced, and the result was compressed and listless. I've only listened to the album a few times, and each time I'm severely disappointed. I can't see how Trevor Horn let this happen. Oh well...

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

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Originally posted by Hakan:
Tamimg the tiger, hmm. Bad sound in the CD, bad recording?

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Bad music.

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I really like 'Both sides' (is the name that?) too. None of you have mentioned them.

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I love Both Sides, Now, the album (and song). Joni inhabits the standards and makes them her own (as does arranger Vince Mendoza). What I especially love, though, are her updates of two of her classic songs, A Case Of You and Both Sides, Now. Mendoza's colors are illuminating, and it makes me salivate in anticipation for her next album (already in the can, I think), which will consist entirely of orchestral reworkings (again arranged by Mendoza) of her earlier work, with musical commentary again by Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, et al. Can't wait.

Mike, if Trever Horn is in anyway responsible for any of the namby crap coming from Yes nowerdays it wouldn't suprise me.

garyi said:

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Mike, if Trever Horn is in anyway responsible for any of the namby crap coming from Yes nowerdays it wouldn't suprise me.

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I think that can be blamed on a lack of new ideas from Yes. The Ladder was entirely uninspiring.

fred simon said:

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it makes me salivate in anticipation for her next album (already in the can, I think), which will consist entirely of orchestral reworkings (again arranged by Mendoza) of her earlier work

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Although I enjoyed the reinterpretations of her earlier works on Both Sides Now, I'm a little concerned if her new album consists only of covers. Joni Mitchell has shown an astounding run of originality throughout her career, and I would hate to learn that she's run out of new ideas.

BTW, where did you learn about this?

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Fred-

You are in good company in feeling that Joni is the top of the heap of all of her contemporaries. I just read an interview with David Crosby on the Joni Mitchell website, and he makes the same point, although, it should be noted, with a bit less elegance. It is always nice to read a musicians perspective on music and recordings. Her website, or one put up to honor her at least, (www.jonimithcell.com)also indicates that she has finished work on a new recording that will be in the same vein as "Both Sides Now", with orchestral settings of more of her older material.

Cheers

I just re-listened to this album, and I think I know why you are complaining about the sonics. Much of what you hear is synthesized (via either keyboard or guitar), and it's tough to get synths to sound as vibrant as "real" instruments. The sounds that she's using are wonderfully textured, but they still don't have the complex timbre of acoustic instruments.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

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Originally posted by Mike Hanson:
I just re-listened to this album, and I think I know why you are complaining about the sonics. Much of what you hear is synthesized (via either keyboard or guitar), and it's tough to get synths to sound as vibrant as "real" instruments. The sounds that she's using are wonderfully textured, but they still don't have the complex timbre of acoustic instruments.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

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Very true. Joni used the Roland VG-8 guitar system (uses an electric guitar with sensors to trigger synth via MIDI) extensively on
Taming The Tiger, which accounts for its overall sound.

In any event, my main problem with the album is the musical composition itself, uninteresting and uninspired notes.

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Originally posted by Mike Hanson:
Although I enjoyed the reinterpretations of her earlier works on _Both Sides Now_, I'm a little concerned if her new album consists only of covers. Joni Mitchell has shown an astounding run of originality throughout her career, and I would hate to learn that she's run out of new ideas.

BTW, where did you learn about this?

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

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I know this sounds harsh, but I think her song bag went empty quite awhile ago, so, for me at least, I welcome this revisionism of her earlier brilliant work, which, given her maturity and Vince Mendoza's wonderful orchestration/arrangements, is a kind of new idea in and of itself.

You can read about the upcoming album here:

http://jonimitchell.com/Home.html#Anders36

here:

http://jonimitchell.com/Home.html#Anders124

and here:

http://www.ew.com/ew/report/0,6115,214129~4~0~,00.html