Linn Akiva

Paul

I am an Akiva fan; I have heard the Boron vs. Akiva and the latter is far ahead of the Boron, by a margin big enough to matter. The Akiva made the Boron sound harsh and forced, really artificial, but when I heard the Boron immediatley prior to the switch to Akiva I thought it pretty good. I have posted at length on this, search "Akiva a review". I heard the dem along with Malcolm Davey in december and I know he is of a similar opinion.

To be fair to any new component I think you need to dem it with your current system. If you get on well with a dealer then you may be able to take your kit in, or find someone that can replicate your system. The way you heard it does not compare like with like.

Otherwise you should try the Boron vs Akiva dem in any high end system, two LP12s loaded with one of each cartridge, switching between the two with the same music I have had this dem and it astonished both Malcolm and myself.

So I bought one!

Regards

Mike

Mike:

Thanks for your comments and your previous ones which I have now read.

Ideally, it would be preferred to demo the Akiva at home but this is just not possible. In fact, I do not know of any dealer near enough to me that would do so with a cartridge.

My purpose with the store demo was to try to get as close to my equipment as possible yet at the same time hear the new gear. Before the introduction of Naim's new line it had been possible to replicate my system almost exactly and then sub in anything new. As a result I have had a long working relationiship with this dealer and my system has evolved in part from 32.5/140 to 52/active 250. Frankly I would have thought that a 252/300 with SL2 fronted by the equivalent of my LP12 setup except for the Akiva should sound bloody good. The 252 should be roughly the same as a 52 and the 300s roughly the same (or better) than 135s. However what I heard was horrible (these were not just some minor differences, it was very, very bad) and certainly not worth the money. Something was really wrong! Setup was using the same stands and room with which I had become familiar over several years and was identical as used in past demos. Now assuming the quality of the amplification my suspicions turned to the Akiva or SL2s. One of these was, I felt, must be the source of the problem. My immediate suspicions indicated the Akiva as the SL2 has been praised on this forum (although I was not familiar with it). Interestingly my dealer felt the opposite and like yourself praised the Akiva and blamed the SL2s (which he claimed had been thoroughly "broken in"). As I said before NBLs were used to replace the SL2s and this was much better. However I felt that this passive NBL system was still inferior to an active SBL system. (I repeat however that with a 500 the NBL sounds bloody marvellous - perhaps it requires a 500 to perform adequately - I had not heard the NBLs before except with a 52/500).

I had fully expected to like what I had heard and thought that both the Akiva and SL2s would be my next purchases. However, I certainly will not now purchase either until I have heard both again. I am being especially cautious with the Akiva as I remember well my experience when I replaced my Troika with the original Arkiv. Linn hyped the Arkiv as a significant improvement over the Troika. To be kind it was a sideways step. Not until the release of the Arkiv B was the Troika really improved upon by Linn IMO. I certainly do not want to go through this again with an Akiva.

If, as you claim, the Akiva is a significant improvement then it is the SL2s that are at fault. Perhaps this is so. What a disappointment that will be if it turns out to be true.

Based on my demo I will not purchase either the Akiva or SL2s until I have heard them again. With a bit of luck I may be able to arrange a home demo of the SL2s but I will try to hear both in other settings too. I will not give up entirely on these products but they are "on hold" for the time being.

On reflection with regards to the SL2s, this is the first time that I have heard a new Naim product that was indicated as an upgrade where the improvement was not immediately obvious to me within seconds. Perhaps I have reached the stage with my system that upgrades will be impossible except with huge amounts of cash (a 552/500/DBL system for example). Unfortunately, that certainly isn't going to happen! For the time being I will stick with my SBls and perhaps even consider replacing my Arkiv II when it is worn out with another Arkiv II if it is still available.

Paul

Paul

I can only echo the thoughts of Mike, he bought one and I want one!!.
Not sure about the speakers though

Good luck

Paul B,

I should be wary of buying the Akiva. Without wishing to cause further offence to Mike Lacey and others, I shall explain.

I had an Akiva for a short time and found it very poor indeed. It was used with an LP12, Ekos, Lingo, Linto and my main system which is QUAD 34, 707, ESL63s.

I suspect that the Linto I had was faulty (or perhaps they are all like that!) because the Akiva worked rather better when fed directly to the 34 pre-amplifier (fitted with an MC module).

I have had the opportunity to compare (albeit with a week or two's gap in between) the operation of the LP12, Ekos, Akiva, Lingo combination with a Michell Orbe, SME V, Ortofon Rohman combination, both running into my normal QUAD set up (no Linto).

In comparison with the Michell/SME/Ortofon arrangement, the Linn Akiva arrangement lacks detail and has an over-emphasised mid-range and bass. The Linn arrangement, as I have said on this forum before, colours the sound to such an extent that any subtleties in performance or recording are masked, everything come out with an aggressive thump (that's how it sounded to me).

The Michell/SME/Ortofon arrangement seems, to my ears, to be flawless. There is no colouration. Each recording sounds different. Subtle nuances of the performance are revealed. It's pacy and punchy for rock, rich and detailed for classical. Whatever is in the grooves is reproduced with no sound signature signature added, as far as I can tell.

That's what I found anyway. It is still a source of confusion to me that others find the Akiva so good.

You sound as mystified as I was when I heard the LP12/Akiva etc set up at home. It wasn't that the sound wasn't as good as expected - it was terrible, truly appalling, almost impossible to listen to.

I can't say whether the bad sound you heard was due to the Akiva or the speakers. Did you hear the speakers when playing CDs, for example? I know while I was using the Akiva, I had to keep listening to CDs in between to reassure myself that my system had not just died!

If I have learnt anything from this, it is the need to try these things out at home on your own set-up first and not rely, as I did, on the good equipment at the dealer indicating how the new toy might work at home. I agree with Mike on this point.

BTW - It goes without saying that the Orbe etc is staying in my system. The Linn kit is long returned.

I suspect that I simply do not like the Linn sound (to be honest, I don't think that good equipment should have any noticeable sound signature) and that is, perhaps, why I am doubtful about the Akiva. On the other hand, if you are used to the Linn sound, or even like it, you should like the Akiva. For a short time I had a Dynavector cartridge instead of the Akiva and that was even worse, so the Akiva is better than something.

I am willing to believe that for those who like the Linn sound, the Akiva is a very good cartridge. Someone on this forum asked if the Akiva was really the best cartridge in the world. I would say that:

The Akiva is the best cartridge in the world at producing the Linn sound ... probably.

I doubt that this is of much use to you, except to point out that you are not alone in being doubtful about the Akiva.

Regards,

Paul H.

P.S. Please don't take offence anybody. I have just described, without exaggeration, my experiences with the Akiva. I know that Linn equipment has brought enjoyment to thousands of people and I wouldn't want to detract from that.

Paul99

Sorry to sound rude here, but you really are going to have to stop doing this.

You are responding to questions about the Akiva; you heard a top spec LP12 through top spec Linn amps and B&W speakers, and liked it enough to spend a large amount of money on it.

When you got the LP12 home, you found that you did not like the sound of it through you Quad amps and speakers. Fair enough, you returned it to the dealer for a full refund. You then joined this Forum to share your bad experiances. ( the pedant in me might ask why, when it seems that you have no Naim kit at all. )

AFAIK at no stage have you compared the Akiva to another cartridge on the same deck. Yet you persist in rubbishing it on more than one website.

As you have not carried out the A/B comparison you really should not comment. With respect you should stick to " I liked the LP12 in a Linn system, did'nt like in with my Quad kit."

I feel a little guilty in doing this, but I am concerned that your opinion might sway others.

Please stop commenting in this manner until such time as you can make meaningful comparisons.

Mike

PS glad to hear you like your new kit BTW

Unfortunately, outside of the 4 of us who have made comment on the Akiva everyone else so far has nothing to say or doesn't know.

Frank Abela? Chris Koster? Have either of you heard the Akiva and would like to comment?

Paul

Paul B,

I haven't heard the Akiva, so I am not qualified to join your group of 4. I have spoken to Grahams (my dealer of choice, but they would be living on a handful of rice a week if they had to rely on patrons with my spending power) and they tell me the Akiva gives a huge improvement over an Arkiv I or Arkiv II. Clearly this is in the context of my type of system. Their advice has always been sound (apologies for the pun).

I have heard the SL2 and the SBL speakers and IMHO the SL2 gives a desirable improvement over the SBL.

The system that you heard, and didn't like, should sound awesome. However, hifi is a bit like pretty women. They are all awesome, but we are attracted more by some than others. In other words, you might be one of those perfectly normal people who just doesn't happen to like the way Naim present passive music. And at 06.00 hrs, without makeup (ie not properly set up) even the best-looking bird can look dreadful...In other words, the system you listened to might not have been set up very well that particular day.....the dealer just fluffed his job....happens to us all, now and then!

My gut feeling is that the system you auditioned had a serious fault in it somewhere. It could have been any one of the components that was faulty, or a combination.

Before casting the blame on the cartridge or speakers, ask the dealer (who clearly knows you are a good customer) to get the system right and give you another demonstration, possibly in active mode. You owe it to both him and yourself to avoid passing-by what could be your system of choice.

If the second demo is just as bad, I personally would try a different dealer for the third demo and then move on to a different system.....

Cheers

Don

My experience with my dealer is that they have been very reliable with set-up for demos and this demo was not "fluffed". They actually believe the Akiva is great too. I'm the one who was not so sure as it was heard in isolation and it was not possible to compare it to an Arkiv II. My thoughts are only based on my experience that I have always found Naim upgrades to be always obvious and have thus given Naim the benefit of the doubt in this case with regards to the SL2. That is why I thought the Akiva suspect. However, I could be wrong.

Of course it is also possible that I just don't like the overall presentation of the new Naim amps (it is different) and thus what comes out the speakers. Here, of course, is the difficulty of auditioning equipment out of context when so many pieces of the system are new. But, its not the dealers fault that Naim changed almost everything at the same time!

By the way, I have heard and used Naim passive systems for over twenty years. It is only recently that I went active. This is not a factor and I know a passive Naim system can be excellent too. They don't have to be active to sound great.

Another demo or loan of the gear will be necessary but this is not as easy as you might think as I don't live near a dealer who can demonstrate the level of gear I use presently or desire to purchase.

Paul

PS I think I should also add that my negative impression of this system is also based on having very high expectations of Naim (and Linn) based on my experience over the years and the equipment I now use. The system I listened to was certainly not inexpensive yet I felt did not provide the musical impact of earlier Naim systems I have heard and used myself.

[This message was edited by Paul B on THURSDAY 27 March 2003 at 01:47.]

Paul99, your denigration of the Akiva (which I have not heard) is very strange. It is Linn's philosophy, which perhaps you don't believe, that the sound of the record deck is determined first by the deck, second by the tonearm, and third by the cartridge. The sonic signature you describe is what is commonly ascribed to the LP12.

Meanwhile, the cartridge is made by Scan-Tech, to Linn's spec to be sure, but using Scan-Tech's design and technology. Scan-Tech make what are considered to be among the most neutral cartridges in existence under the name of their house brand, Lyra. The Akiva is likely to be a something like a tweaked Helikon, and no one ascribes to that cartridge the character you do.

I am glad you like your Michell/SME combo, and in fact in your prior thread I suggested you listen to something like it, but I really suspect you are blaming the cartridge for the sins of the turntable.

--Eric

I bought an Akiva together with a new LP12/Ekos(silver wired)/Lingo2 last December. Previously I had an early 1980's LP12/Ekos Mk 1(Modified/Lingo1/Arkiv1. The rest of current system is a 252/250-2/Super Cap 2/CDX2/Epos ES22 Speakers.

Noticed an immediate difference in terms of refinement, separation and bass extension. But what really brought it to life was the addition of the Tom Evans Groove last month. I know it's a bit of a cliche but it really was like a huge veil had been lifted and I was hearing previously unheard detail from my LP's.

In short I am delighted with my current LP12 set-up and think the Akiva is simply stunning. It's a pity that some of the comments made here and elsewhere on the Forum may put interested parties off trying out a combination which to me represents a quality sound I never thought possible on vinyl. The CDX2 only gets played by the rest of the family as I just haven't been able to go back to CD's!

Peter

Just about every negative comment I have seen on the Akiva comes from Paul99 who seems to have joined this forum just to denigrate the cartridge. See my comments above about this.

Regards

Mike

Paul B,

The system I listened to.........did not provide the musical impact of earlier Naim systems I have.........used myself

I read a very similar comment in HiFi Plus (I think) in a very recent review of the 300 where the author also felt Naim have completely changed their "sound". A review of the 250 which followed in the same edition, hinted at a similar feeling of a change in sound.
The magazine in question had a picture of a bright yellow Wilson WATT/Puppy on the cover.....can't find my copy.....hope Mrs D hasn't binned it.

It's possible that the new Naim sound isn't to your liking.....nor that of the Akiva..... or the SL2s.....

Difficult

Sorry not to be of much help

Cheers

Don

"Any comments on the Akiva?"

Paul Messenger in the April Stereophile talks a bit about the cartridge. He was waiting to get a sample to hear but based upon this thread on the Mana Forum, he apparently finally did.

http://manaforum.atinfopop.com/4/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=462298155&f=172298155&m=4294067562&r=7654005962#7654005962

If you have a top spec LP12 this cartridge makes sense. Go for it Paul!



[This message was edited by John Gilleran on FRIDAY 28 March 2003 at 23:11.]

Thanks John for the link. I am beginning to have more confidence in the Akiva now as more positive reports come in.

Paul