Upgrade to 52 from 82 with 2 Hicaps ?

I'd Supercap the 82 and get a different cartridge for the LP12.

A preamp upgrade is a logical way to go but not sure if your front end is good enough for a 52. It's relatively a lot more open sounding unit than the 82, so depending on what's in front of it, it might upset the system balance.

I'd listen carefully to the 52 before purchasing.

Not everyone on the Forum prefers the 52 over the 82/Supercap.

I owned both combos about a decade ago. Certainly, my preference was the 82/Supercap.

Supercap has a remarkable effect on the 82 - much better than one (or two) HiCaps. The music flows better with Supercap - much improved timing/PRAT and better defined bass. 82/Supercap makes for a smooth system.

Engelbert

Do you have an idea about the sum of money that I have to pay in order to upgrade the 2 Hicaps to Supercap?

Arye

Arye

Englebert talks a lot of sense. I've been exactly where you are now. Firstly I Supercapped my 82 and the improvement over a HC is very impressive. I first borrowed a 2nd HC to try the 2 HC solution but quite frankly it was a waste of money and effort.

I had the 82/SC for several months and was elated with how it all sounded, but I was then tempted to go for a 52 and for me it was the biggest mistake I ever made. I spent 2 very frustrating years trying to love the 52, but in the end it just had to go and I bought a 282 which I run with the SC and I'm now completely happy again.

I don't know what it is about the 52 that didn't suit me, but I just prefer the presentation of the 82 (and now 282)

Gary

quote:

Do you have an idea about the sum of money that I have to pay in order to upgrade the 2 Hicaps to Supercap?

Ayre your 2 X HC should net you about £750-800 a SC maybe about £1500-2000. A 52 approx £1500-2500.

SC on the 82 is one of the best upgrades I have done, should have done it instead of buying the 2nd HC in hindsight.

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:

quote:

Do you have an idea about the sum of money that I have to pay in order to upgrade the 2 Hicaps to Supercap?

Ayre your 2 X HC should net you about £750-800 a SC maybe about £1500-2000. A 52 approx £1500-2500.

SC on the 82 is one of the best upgrades I have done, should have done it instead of buying the 2nd HC in hindsight.

I'll have to come and have a listen then.

Did you get Adrian's and John's and my emails?

I added a SC2 to my 82 last year: very well worthwhile improvement (previously just 82 with one HC). I then upgraded to a 252/SC2 which was much better. However, you need to listen and compare; the 52 and 252 both generate strong feels for and against! But the 252 (and I believe 52) take a long time to warm-up/burn-in/settle-down so allow plenty of time.

i did the upgrade to a 52 and soon realised i had made a big mistake. i went back to the 82 and was much happier.

andy

quote:

Originally posted by andyvk:
i did the upgrade to a 52 and soon realised i had made a big mistake. i went back to the 82 and was much happier.

andy

I'm really surprised Andy and Engelbert. During the course of last year I went through significant system upgrades as follows:

NAC82/HI-CAP (This was a big upgrade over my NAC72/HI-CAP)

NAC82/HI-CAP(2) (This was better than the single HI-CAP and I tried it as I had a reduntant HI-CAP around. If I had paid a lot to get the relatively small improvement I would have been disappointed)

NAC82/SUPERCAP (This was a big step forward. Everything seemed much more sharply in focus and instrumental articulation was much better)

NAC52/SUPERCAP (Another big step forward. This combo does everything that I liked about the NAC82/SUPERCAP combo but does it so much better)

I'm surprised that some people prefer the 82 to the 52. I'd be interested to know how you feel that it is better and what other equipment you are using it with)

Whatever you have I'm glad you are enjoying your music

I went from 82/2 Hicaps to 52/SC for around £1200 by buying wisely s/h and selling my stuff privately.. Both the 52 and the SC came from dealers. The 52 was a very late model (2001) was around £1800, the SC being 1997. I think quotes of £2500 for a 52 are a trifle optimistic.

I think your dealer is having a laugh at $3500, Arye.

$3500 or £2250 from a dealer is not that bad judging by the latest E-Bay auction prices, haggle maybe?
If it is a lateish one or a serviced one even better, I'm assuming a warranty of some kind(shouldn't be needed).

Saying that some 252 are appearing at about £2500-3000, so maybe?
It's almost as if the Olive gear is attracting a premium of scarcity?


Re: the 52 vs 82 debate I would be very surprised if the 52 wasn't a considerable "step up" from an 82, it has made me think it could be the only upgrade I will not do "blind".


MEMO to self read the original post fully.

I find it surprising that, given the choice, anyone would prefer the 82 to the 52. But we all make our own choice.

As I understand Arye's post, he'd be trading in an 82 and two Hicaps for an oldish 52 and recently serviced Supercap and paying $3,500 on top. Is that a bad deal?

quote:

graham55 says: As I understand Arye's post, he'd be trading in an 82 and two Hicaps for an oldish 52 and recently serviced Supercap and paying $3,500 on top. Is that a bad deal?

This is the question. Meantime I asked the dealer and he doesn't want to give me the SC alone as he can't sale the 52 without it.

Arye

Arye

I started out with an 82 with a single hicap. I added a second hicap which I thought was a worthwhile improvement. I then traded the lot for a 52. Well...
The 52 is all about interplay between musicians. For me, that really increases the "involvement" factor in replay. The 52 can initially sound a bit unimpressive compared to the 82. It doesn't attract attention to itself. I can see where this can lead to confusion when comparing the two preamps. It takes a little time to "get" what the 52 is doing, but once that happens there is no going back IMO.
We all listen differently and we each pick up on certain aspects of replay that appeal to us. It is basically impossible to predict how you will get along with a 52.
One caveat. Your CDX is not really a suitable source for a 52. Unless you plan to upgrade to a CDS level of player, it is hard for me to see you being happy in the long term.
As an alternative, I would look for a CDS2 before I upgraded the preamp. It would work very well with your present amplification. Just a thought.
Regards,
BBM

quote:

Originally posted by CFMF:
Arye
Unless you plan to upgrade to a CDS level of player, it is hard for me to see you being happy in the long term.
As an alternative, I would look for a CDS2 before I upgraded the preamp. It would work very well with your present amplification. Just a thought.
Regards,
BBM

After I upgraded from 82/SC to 52/SC I also upgraded from CDX/CDPS to CDS2/XPS. It is a huge upgrade although I'm sure that the 52 is giving the CDS2/XPS combination full opportunity to show its strenghs. My CDX/CDPS with 82/SC was a well balanced combination but upgrading the pre-amp and CDP was taken the system to a new level.

I had done upgrades from 82/hi to 82/2hi to 52/sc. The biggest jump for me is the jump from 82/2hi to 52/sc.

Massive insights to music and made my 82 sounds hifi-ish. And my 52 is also of the earlier pots and it still beats the hell out of my newer 82 at that time.

Ohh..one more thing, 52 needs a good 1 week to warm especially especially if the supercap is nearing 10 yrs old and not recapped.

DJ and leeto

I went from CDX/XPS to CDS2 when I had an 82/2HI/250 and the differences between the two players were very obvious. A few months later I changed the 82/2Hi for a 52. This was the biggest upgrade I have ever done with Naim gear. The playback from both LP12 and CDS2 took a huge leap forward in things that matter most to me.
I have no urge to change anything and that says a lot...

Regards,
BBM

As a 72/HI/250 owner, I've read many pre-amp upgrade threads and my conclusion is that the 82 is best run with one HICAP and that you'll love it or hate it compared to the 72.

Which makes me wonder, would a 72 fan love the 52, but not the 82. And would an 82 fan not like a 52 and the 72 ?

When I find $10,000 to upgrade I was toying with either a 282/HI or a 52/SC. But with VPI Scout/20Xl and CDX/XPS sources, I know that my system would be totally unbalanced so I'd need another $10,000 to rebalance the sources, then another $10,000 for speakers to upgrade the ES11's.

So to upgrade my system I'd realistically need $20,000 to $30,000 !! Yeah, I don't think so :-)

Thank you all,

As I can't buy the SC alone (although I could get the combo for a listen at home) I'm skipping this chance. It seems a better way to look for SC on EBay.

Arye

There have always been a small-but-shouty (like the machines!) minority who prefer the CDX players to the CDS series. I think similar tastes results in a few people preferring the 82 to the 52. If excitement, PRaT, attack, whatever you call it, outweigh all other aspects of musical reproduction (or if you have a murky room and speakers) I can believe the 82/Supercap combination might represent the top of the tree for you. For most of us, the more complete qualities of the 52 make it a substantial upgrade over the 82.

duncan

quote:

Originally posted by djc:
There have always been a small-but-shouty (like the machines!) minority who prefer the CDX players to the CDS series. I think similar tastes results in a few people preferring the 82 to the 52. If excitement, PRaT, attack, whatever you call it, outweigh all other aspects of musical reproduction (or if you have a murky room and speakers) I can believe the 82/Supercap combination might represent the top of the tree for you. For most of us, the more complete qualities of the 52 make it a substantial upgrade over the 82.

duncan

Duncan

What gives you the right to describe those who prefer the 82 to the 52 a "small-but-shouty minority"?. A minority we may well be, but that's just bloody rude and disrespectful of other peoples views.

I bought my 52 on the basis of comments from people like you, who kept bleating on about how good the 52 was and for me it was one of the biggest mistakes I made.

With a SC on both preamps, the difference is not as big as some make out and it just depends on one's preference in presentation terms. All I can say is that my foot never tapped quite the same way when I owned a 52 as it did when I han an 82, albeit the 52 was clearly better in other respects.

Please just accept that we all have different tastes and stop being so rude about people you've never met.

Gary

quote:

For most of us, the more complete qualities of the 52 make it a substantial upgrade over the 82.

Whoa! I can see the rush by all you poor suckers out there stuck with your "shouty" 82's to dump them as soon as possible. Don't you feel bad that your ears have tricked you into enjoying such a miserable piece of electronic crap when the majority has determined that the 52 is obviously a much better machine?

Tom

quote:

Originally posted by Gary S.:

quote:

Originally posted by djc:
There have always been a small-but-shouty (like the machines!) minority who prefer the CDX players to the CDS series. I think similar tastes results in a few people preferring the 82 to the 52. If excitement, PRaT, attack, whatever you call it, outweigh all other aspects of musical reproduction (or if you have a murky room and speakers) I can believe the 82/Supercap combination might represent the top of the tree for you. For most of us, the more complete qualities of the 52 make it a substantial upgrade over the 82.

duncan

Duncan

What gives you the right to describe those who prefer the 82 to the 52 a "small-but-shouty minority"?. A minority we may well be, but that's just bloody rude and disrespectful of other peoples views.

I bought my 52 on the basis of comments from people like you, who kept bleating on about how good the 52 was and for me it was one of the biggest mistakes I made.

With a SC on both preamps, the difference is not as big as some make out and it just depends on one's preference in presentation terms. All I can say is that my foot never tapped quite the same way when I owned a 52 as it did when I han an 82, albeit the 52 was clearly better in other respects.

Please just accept that we all have different tastes and stop being so rude about people you've never met.

Gary

these comments are on par with all naim collectors and upgraders they seem to hear magical things when they add to the system, yes there may be differences that you think are better. differences may not be better

amplifier design has not really changed much in decades. what as changed is standard of components.design of pcbs and manufacturing. if you are happy with your system enjoy it. till the next upgrade ha naim followers ,there are systems out there just as good as naim

ive had the dac since mid december, ive been a fan of dacs for a very long time. i have only got one naim unit, the dac.

its the best performer ive ever had with regard to digital conversion naimers buy the dac its worth the cash

I think it would be reasonable to assume that those who prefer the NAC82 to the NAC52 would be in the minority Gary but if that's your preference then fine. I lived with the NAC82/HI-CAP for a few months last year, having upgraded from NAC72/HI-CAP. I then added the Supercap and the NAC82 sounded much better. When I went to the NAC52 I found that it had all the qualities of the NAC82 but it just hung together better. Sorry I give a more eloquent description. I did read somewhere that some of the circuitry in the Supercap is not used by the NAC82 and that it is only the NAC52 that utilises the full capabilities of the Supercap. Whether that is right I don't know.

I had used a CDX/CDPS with my NAC82/HI-CAP and NAC82/Supercap but when I got the NAC52 I didn't get the same enjoyment from CDs. When funds permitted I upgraded to a CDS2/XPS. I think that brought about a more significant improvement than the pre-amplifier upgrades.

I wonder whether system balance might be the key factor.

quote:

I did read somewhere that some of the circuitry in the Supercap is not used by the NAC82 and that it is only the NAC52 that utilises the full capabilities of the Supercap. Whether that is right I don't know.

Correct 82 uses 2 x 5 pin SNAIC, 52 uses Burndey and 5 pin SNAIC