The Importance of the Chair

Posted by: Top Cat on 18 February 2004

Hi folks.

This will be one of my very last topics on this or any of the other hifi forums due to being basically where I want to be with hifi (prefix purchase excepted, though that's almost a given). So, I shall shortly retire from actively posting, and concentrate on other interests - after all, I won't want to re-open any cans of worms...

The journey from the Denon days of the late eighties and early nineties, though the dark Arcam days of the mid-to-late nineties, via my plastic fantastic days with DNM, to my current Naim setup has been fun, if a bit on the expensive side when it's all totalled up. However, I am finally in a place which satisfies me in all regards, and early concerns over high frequency extension and the like have faded as the system has warmed up.

Anyway, the final piece of the musical jigsaw puzzle fell into place at the end of last week - I finally took delivery of my new recliner, which has two roles to play - as a chill-out chair for reading or napping, and as a listening chair. I spent a fair amount of time selecting a suitable place to plonk my ar$e yet didn't really appreciate quite how much of a difference to one's enjoyment of music having a really ergonomic and comfortable listening chair can make.

I wouldn't be surprised if a great many people stall at the cost of a decent chair as it's tempting to spend more money on boxes or music. However, in the days since installing the Peel II I have noticed that I perceive all music as more enjoyable and relaxing, whilst finally achieving something akin to 'closure' on the whole hifi thing.

Why am I posting this? Well, primarily to state for the record that to get the most out of the music, it really pays to pay attention not only to things like the hifi, the setup and the room, but also the environment you're going to be listening in. In my case, I wanted warm and comfortable, tidy and clean, not too dark and not too bright - those sorts of things - coupled with a chair that I could sit in for long periods without feeling sore or stressed, but equally without something so saggy that my posture went (I am mindful of my back these days). I used to sit on everything from a sofa to an Ikea inflatable cushion thing, but nothing really did it for me. I'd either be subconsciously compensating for lack of balance on the cushion or finding myself slouched on the sofa. I'd either find I was sitting too low or too high for the speakers, and bits of me would get over-warm.

What I realised was that my attention and appreciation of the music I was attempting to listen to was being compromised by a number of small, but consequential, niggles in the environment around me. I was forever finding myself sitting with arms clasped behind my head, and elbows out - and the sound was somewhat better that way. I'd find that I couldn't settle and because of that I wasn't able to really immerse myself in the music.

I strongly encourage anyone who is 'making do' with whatever sofa, chair, cushions, etc., to look into how comfortable they are and whether a few pounds spent on a really ergonomic and comfortable chair would be a better investment in that latest box - in my case, I'd say the improvement on Sofa->Recliner is greater than 82/HC to 52/SC, and quite a bit cheaper too. Maybe that won't apply to you but then again maybe it will. I think the very fact we're on this forum in the first place suggests that we all want to take steps to increase our musical enjoyment, so I really would recommend looking beyond the hifi and into your very own comfort.

John
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by Basil
I've been thinking of starting a "Listening Chair" thread for a while now. In my opinion the most under-valued piece of your HiFi, at least as important as your source components.
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by domfjbrown
Yep - a listening chair is as important to enjoyment as a quality computer monitor is to web surfing Smile

I have neither at home Frown My sofa's not so bad, but a decent recliner HAS to be the way forward. When I rob a bank to fund my 1 bedroom rabbit hutch...

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

Posted on: 18 February 2004 by Rico
Oi, come on John - we want the pics!

Sounds like a great chair...

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

PS - I trust you shouted at it before taking it home, in true Tony Lonorgan style.
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by Alex S.
Do I need a separate spur for an electric chair?
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by musfed
quote:
I'd say the improvement on Sofa->Recliner is greater than 82/HC to 52/SC, and quite a bit cheaper too.


Well, unfortunately a Le corbusier sofa is quite a budget breaker. A brown corduroy version would be nice, thanks. Smile
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by Dev B
You need an Eames recliner
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by JBoulder
A hi-fi salesman I know bought an old barber shop chair - good vertical adjustment - but I wasn't that comfortable sitting in it - or maybe that was because of his accuphase/mirage set...

-----
This one is perfect but the best is yet to come...
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by Mike Hanson
I've got a great chair that is awfully comfy, and reclines on command. As to perfect listening height, it seems fine up or down. Wink



-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by Top Cat
Hi folks.

I don't have a picture of my exact chair yet (as I've not taken any photos since I got it) but here's a picture to keep you going - just take my word for it, it is *supremely* comfortable:



Dev: I planned to buy an Eames Recliner, and had the perfect opportunity at a nearby posh furniture shop (you know the sort - avant garde designer chic, chrome and minimalism)- the Eames right next to the Peel. The Eames suited what I thought I wanted - comfy, classic and would fit in with our decor - but the Peel was streets ahead in comfort and ironically fits in with the style of our Victorian house better than the somewhat mid-20th-century styling of the Eames. I was there with both of my wives Wink - ok, my wife and her best friend, but when out 'n about I like to refer to them as wives plural (provokes all manner of reactions as you can imagine) and all three of us thought that the Eames, whilst in itself a stylish and comfortable chair, is totally eclipsed by the comfort of the Peel. Sure, the Peel is much more futuristic looking and won't be to everyone's taste, but once you sit in it (properly adjusted to just hold you in space) there's nothing I've tried to touch it - perhaps the somewhat cheaper Ekornes Stressless chairs are closest in comfort, though my wife hates their style.

quote:
PS - I trust you shouted at it before taking it home, in true Tony Lonorgan style.

Well, I ordered it back in September or early October, and it only got delivered last Friday - perhaps I'm still in the honeymoon phase but the only noises I made were of the happy contented sort...

Anyway, let's not dwell on the specifics - as with hifi, what fits one person's preferences won't necessarily fit anothers - but rather the fact that a good chair enhances the musical appreciation in, as Dom says, the same way as a good monitor enhances the web surfing experience, or in the same way that a finely cut Ermenigildo Zegna suit enhances the appearance, or in the way a Henckel enhances the chopping experience, or... you get the picture?

The only drawback is of course that if you buy one, you'll end up fighting over it with your better half. Not to mention your better half's father, who comes round to visit and is invited to the full Bob Dylan experience (he actually had tears of joy - now, I've been into music for years but I've never cried at Dylan!)...

Anyway, I digress.

I'm going to revise the hierarchy: Chair first, then source, amps, mains, speakers and supports. Or something...

John
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by Nime
There's nowt wrong with my old smoker's bow chair in well worn elm and oak.

When I grow old I may acquire a small <thin> piece of plain sackcloth as a cushion for the wood against my sharp bones.

I couldn't be doing with a chair without arms though. A chap needs something solid to hold onto when the music gets over-excited.

Nime
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by seagull
"...perhaps the somewhat cheaper Ekornes Stressless chairs..."

Blimey, how much did yours cost then, a Stressless chair plus footstall costing about the same as a low-end Naim box...
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by Top Cat
quote:
how much did yours cost then

It's in the same ballpark as an Eames. A little bit more than the Stressless. But that's neither here nor there - I don't want this topic to turn into a 'what chair have you got' topic - I'd rather talk about what is important in a chair.

To start, for me I valued comfort first and foremost, but having a tendency to occasionally pull one of the muscles in my upper back, I also wanted something which was supportive and encouraged a good back 'shape'. Secondly, the style had to be acceptable to both myself and my wife. The next consideration was balance =- one of the things that put me off cheaper chairs was a tendency to have to actively keep a balance - in other words, either using my feet to keep it at a given position or suchlike.

The other criteria was that it due to my wife's eco & animal welfare leanings, leather was out - unless there was no option. A good wearing velvet-like fabric was preferable.

The last criteria was the effective shape - not how it appears to the eye but how it feels to the body - i.e. the head must have a headrest and the arms must have a place to go (which they do, though one might think otherwise from the picture - it's misleading). Similarly, it's designed so that one can curl up ones legs to one side (in the case of the Peel II, to the left) and semi-kneel, or sit normally. The footstool was included in the deal.

In terms of sonics - and yes, the listening chair, being so close to the ears, has a profound impact on the sound it should be considered - the chair has a strange ability to extend the width of the soundstage. I think that's because the headrest 'collects' the sound from a wider area, but it's a pleasant effect and definitely better than the sound from a regular chair. There's probably an acoustic cancellation thing going on - serendipitiously, as it happens - which might have something to do with an effect called the Haas effect (but I might have that wrong) which is to do with ones proximity to surfaces behind the head.

Anyway, I digress. This works for me and in a sense completes the music chain. I am sure that 135s, a 500 or a 552 would improve things further but I have a balance that I am loathe to change - and the seat is the finishing touch.

I will, I'm sure, add that prefix and enhance the mains a little further at some point, perhaps buy a Fraim if funds allow and I can find a buyer for my QS Ref; perhaps if opportunity presents itself to acquire a better source, preamp or power amp at some point further down the line, I may consider it, but for now I am done.

The moral is not to underestimate the importance of the chair...

John
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by domfjbrown
Niiiiiice chair Top Cat - that's really cool! Is it one of those ones that allows you to lean back and the chair will "give"??

This is the one I want:


__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

Posted on: 18 February 2004 by seagull
I would have thought that a basket in the corner of the room with an old blanket and a scratching post would have been more up your street Wink

I have had my chair for a few months now, and it is now installed in my new listening room and its contribution to an evening's relaxation cannot be overestimated (together with the improvements to my sistem). My chair has an essential accessory - an attached drinks table which can be adjusted so that the beer can be placed in the optimum position to be picked up
without stretching.

All I need to do now is to train the family to change the music for me without me fearing that the stylus will not be sent skidding accross the surface or the puck disappearing into the body of the CD player.

With respect to the materials, I must admit to not being a total animal welfare bod (i.e. I am an omnivore and do have leather items in my possession Wink but lets not digress) so the leather covered Stressless was not an issue. It is comfortable over long periods and holds any position without any effort on the part of the occupant. I had an extended audition in the shop, I took my walkman and a good book and sat in the favoured chair for some time before deciding to pruchase.

Your penultimate paragraph on your last response seems to indicate that you will be back!
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by Top Cat
quote:
Your penultimate paragraph on your last response seems to indicate that you will be back!

Darn, foiled again!

Nah, seriously, not for a good while. As I implied, only if opportunity presents itself - e.g. a really good deal - and in the meantime we have a new kitchen-cum-dining-room-cum-living room to create at the back of the house and that's where my attentions and money will be going for the next little while...

John
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by JYOW
I agree good chair is always useful. I sometimes pull my Herman Miller Aeron chair into the living room and I am usually more alert and can get to the best listening position.
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by greeny
quote:
This will be one of my very last topics on this or any of the other hifi forums due to being basically where I want to be with hifi (prefix purchase excepted, though that's almost a given


hey, You can post in the Music forum you know Wink
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by Top Cat
I've traditionally preferred the PF Music Forum, and do most of my posting there. No, a clean break is what's required, lest the little upgrade demon starts getting ideas...
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by Martin M
quote:
I don't have a picture of my exact chair yet (as I've not taken any photos since I got it) but here's a picture to keep you going


Ah, the Stokke 'Orange Peel'! Stokke is one of those companies that has the audacity to actually think about how their products will be used. Anyway, I was thinking of getting one of those. My daughter has a Stokke Tripp Trapp high chair, its quite a tremendous piece of kit (for a highchair), their pram is pretty awesome too...
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by graphoman
from any joke apart, you may be aware of Peter W. Belt’s studies. He was the first stating that any fabrique has an effect on the human body. While it’s due to my not too healthy spinal column that I sit on a simple uncoated plastic chair and not on soft sofas, IMHO it gives better sound, too. Effect of sitting on any textile buried thing on the sound quality is the same as switching on the computer in the listening room. Or wearing some thick cloth, heavy-wowen. It really can ruin music listening. Easy to be proven.

Mike,
I can only hope the cat is civilized enough to listen to classical.

graphoman
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by Mike Hanson
quote:
Originally posted by graphoman:
Mike,
I can only hope the cat is civilized enough to listen to classical.

It seems to love it all. There's another that takes the seat occasionally too, and the new kid seems fond of most of my collection so far.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by NaimDropper
Is this the prefered seat for Linn users?
Posted on: 18 February 2004 by Robert Derwae
Top Cat, thanks for the information about your quest for the perfect leisure chair. I'm in the market for one for my office and, since I live and work in the country, it's not easy for me to go shopping for such things as chairs. The Peel looks like a winner. I, too, had had my eyes on the Eames, but it was looking more and more like a designer cliche to me, so I'm glad you suggested an alternative. And, I just noticed that they make the children's chair that we recently bought for our grandaughter when she visits.

By the way, what is the PF Forum that you monitor?
Posted on: 22 February 2004 by JamH
I sit on the floor when listenning to my hi-fi !! [I just feel more confortable although I probably miss some treble]

James
Posted on: 23 February 2004 by long-time-dead
quote:
Originally posted by NaimDropper:
Is this the prefered seat for Linn users?


No, and I think that you might have taken the flat earth thing a little too far !!!

Wink