AAaaaaaarrrrggh!

I know this is of no use but you have my commiserations. That is a nightmare.

Hope you find something decent.

Regards

Mick

Dev

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Your contents insurance should cover it.

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What contents insurance would that be then?! I live in a very modern city centre warehouse conversion, yet the insurance rates imply I am trying to insure a slum, so it is not cost effective to bother. Insurance companies don't seem to have cottoned on to the fact that city centres are now very desirable, secure, and safe places to live. The last insurance quote I got was for over 500 quid a year... No way am I paying that sort of premium.

Tony.

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Blimey, no insurance. How do you sleep?

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Insurance is an awkward thing from my perspective, as the only thing of real value I own is my record collection, and that is effectively irreplaceable. I just have far too many albums that do not crop up in good condition in any quantity anymore, so finding replacements would be pretty much impossible, and even if it were would take an unrealistic amount of time. Insurance companies are notably bad at insuring collections, most have a very low ceiling on what they will pay out on say records, art, coins etc before the premium becomes totally unrealistic.

My hi-fi is not really worth that much, I could get another P9 class deck, 32.5 / Hicap / 250 / Kans with a half decent CD player for well under three grand, so I don't see that as being worth paying loads out to insure it. I also suspect most thieves would leave it and take my TV, computer, and video instead which could be replaced for far less.

I just had a look at Direct Line, and to insure my contents for 20000 quid including accidental damage at a 100 quid min claim would cost 399 per year, which is much better than the last quote I had, so I may well consider doing it. Bet they wouldn't pay more than about 500 quid out on the records though… Anyone recommend any good insurance companies?

Tony.

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But could I just suggest that you don't waste a dealers time in auditioning the various cartridge options, as, on you own admission you have no intentions of buying one from him even though you may well abuse his professional experience, hospitality, time, set up expertise and demonstration facilities.

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I have no intention of, and never have to my knowledge wasted dealers time, and I actually resent the implication that I might. I occasionally go to Cheadle for a curry with Larry O, and I bought my P9 from a dealer, but otherwise I never set foot in the bloody places! Loot is my hi-fi shop.

Tony.

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But could I just suggest that you don't waste a dealers time in auditioning the various cartridge options, as, on you own admission you have no intentions of buying one from him even though you may well abuse his professional experience, hospitality, time, set up expertise and demonstration facilities. Which I'm sure you will accept, do not come chreap and represent a huge investment on his part.

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Paul,

I have to competely disagree with you here. I can't speak for Tony but a good enthusiasitic dealer should be delighted to dem a component to a prospective customer, even if he/she doesn't buy it.

For example Robert Ritchie lent me his NAP500 for two weeks and I told him categorically that I had no intention of buying it. I had to literally plead him to take the thing back! Luckily my enhusiasm for the product meant that I invited some of my friends over and one of them will probably buy one.

Grahams have also demmed stuff to me back 'in the day' when I had no clue about hifi and was just curious. Likewise Billy Vee.

Of course when I have bought kit it has been with dealers who have given me the impression that:

(a) they are competent
(b) they are enthusiastic
(c) they are most interested in my long term satisfaction as opposed to a quick sale.

I have to say that I have come across more poor dealers than good ones (and I am not a weirdo freak customer) and I am frequently amazed at the anoraky bullshit spouted by most of them.

I have to say the living in Scotland with such a fantastic dealer such as Robert Ritchie has really raised my expectations about what I should expect (service wise) from a dealer.

Just my (a customers view),

Cheers

Dev B (on the wheels of steel)

quote:

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Insurance companies are notably bad at insuring collections, most have a very low ceiling on what they will pay out on say records, art, coins etc before the premium becomes totally unrealistic.

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This can be true when the owner has no record (excuse the pun) of his collection. One is usually then into the realms of loss assessors and siginificant negotiation will be required to ensure you don't lose out..

If you have the time to create an inventory the maintenance of it isn't to great a chore, and will usually be accepted as proof of ownership by the company.

Whilst this doesn't overcome the problem of availability, it will at least provide some financial recompense.

I was very specific about cover for record collections, LP12's and other such items and there was no problem. The records are viewed as individual items, not a collection, therefore the limits on single items do not apply.

As John Clark has discovered, new for old can be a very effective way of upgrading

I use Zurich (Eagle Star) who offer stunning deals to public sector workers, a category Barbara qualifies for and I then benefit from. They've never been beaten for contents, home or motor insurance by any other company I've contacted and there's no excess on most claims.

It bought me a new Palm hand-held after my original got left on the car roof at no cost to me.

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes

I've got a P9 and use it with an Exact (not everybodies taste I know, but i like it!). Rega replaced it within a week. I think it cost 200 quid instead of 250 new (3 years ago).

Worth a listen IMHO!

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The lowest quotes I have had on cartridges have been from Ian Harrison tel 01283 702875, he does exchanges for your old cartridges as well.

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Thanks for that. Ian has offered me better prices on both Orts than Custom Cable. Just got to decide which one to go for.

Come on, anyone compared them or at least heard both the MC10 Supreme and 25FL?! I seem to recal Frank A quite liking the 25FL, but hating the 10 Supreme...

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I've got a P9 and use it with an Exact (not everybodies taste I know, but i like it!). Rega replaced it within a week.

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I have not heard the Exact, but think I want to stay with a MC.

Tony.

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you should consider a rebuild karma (I have emailed you discussing that issue)

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Thanks. I have never actually used a Karma, though have heard the odd LP12 with one fitted, what is the general verdict? The thing that makes me a little unsure is that its obviously a very old cartridge (10 years minimum?). I also recall Hi-Fi Review rating the then new Audio Technica OC9 as being virtually the Karmas equal, having owned both I certainly rate the MC10 Supreme well above an OC9.

Does the Karma track well? This is probably my biggest single requirement as I have a lot of less than perfect vinyl - I don't want a cart that accentuates every last crackle and pop. The MC 10 Supreme was excellent in this respect with really quiet and solid tracking.

Tony.

Sorry to hear about the cartridge. I did the same but the insurance paid out.

I am with Royal Sun Alliance and they are excellent.

I found the AT OC9 almost as good as the Dynavector DV17D2 I now use which at half the price makes it a good buy in my book.

I can't comment on the Ortofon's.

regards,

Jonathan

I once was cleaning a Dynavector Ruby Karat several days after purchase. When I straightened my back, my tie (cartriges and ties do NOT go together) managed to grip onto the stylus assembly and in a deft stroke remove the stylus neatly from the cantilever. I sent it back to the importers with an indignant note as to how it came off while I was gently cleaning it with the supplied brush in the front2back direction etc etc.. several days later a brand new sample shows up on the mail with a letter of sincere apology and acknowledgement that some early samples had shown a tendency for the stylus to become loose.

Years later a similar letter resulted in a new Koetsu cartridge. For some reason I felt more justified in taking these actions for a product with a several thousand percent markup than I would had it been an equivalently priced piece of electronics with a far lower markup rate.

I did not attempt to get a free Karma out of Linn as at the time they had a (well earned)reputation for extreme conservatism and parsimony.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo

http://homepages.go.com/~rontoolsie/index1.html

Tony wrote:

>>I have found Dynavectors far too warm and soft for me, and my old Lydian B to be too far in the other direction and also show up every single crackle and pop. The MC10 Supreme was a good middle ground and a fabulous tracker.<<

Judging by these experiences, I believe you may want to take extra special care to choose a cartridge whose dimensions give an appropriate VTA with the RB900.

A warm and soft Dynavector? Houston, we have a problem!

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn6

But to have the possibility of insurance and choose not to spend the money on it is to me incomprehensible. O.K. so what you lose might not be replacable, but at least you have the cash to do something else? For example, this Picasso is unique and has been destroyed so forget about the £10 million it cost me?

cheers

Nigel

Me - I'm insured to the hilt!

Phil

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I can perfectly understand people not taking insurance - the economics are pretty simple. Over the long term insurance companies make profits having charged you your premium, paid out claims and paid out all the admin that goes with it. Therefore over the long term you'll pay on average more in premiums than you'll collect in claims. Taking out insurance just saves you the one big hit rather than spreading a smaller annual (but in total higher) sum over a long period.

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This is only true if you only make on claim but what if you get robbed, or have accidents more than once in a comparatively short space of time?

To insure yourself against potential loss you would have to invest a sum equal to every purchase - hardly cost eficient when you can insure for a fraction of the purchase price.

cheers

Nigel

They do this because they can buy in bulk, and negotiate the prices down as close to cost as possible.

Thus, premiums are kept lower then they would be otherwise.

Of course, this doesn't apply with stuff like Naim, but can you imagine the conversation:-

"Our preferred £2K CD player supplier is Linn ... what's the problem?"

cheers, Martin

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I use an Ortofon MC25fl and have nothing but praise for it.
Tracking is fantastic and the line contact tip keeps everything sounding crisp and clean right to end of side, where many cartridges with eliptical tips start to go fuzzy.

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Rob,

Thanks for that. Just one more question, do you find it at all over bright / harsh. I recall Frank A describing it this way, and read a similar comment on Audio Asylum (www.audioasylum.com), though the guy there was using some old Thorens / SME 3009 or something, so would no doubt get very different results to me. I am familiar with the OC9 as I have owned one, and I rate it as a pretty good but over bright cartridge, I am hoping that the MC25FL is a lot more solid and weighty, the MC10 Supreme certainly was. My reason for not instinctively just replacing the MC10 Supreme is that I have heard the MC25FL times better.

Tony.

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Therefore over the long term you'll pay on average more in premiums than you'll collect in claims.

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and Andy wrote:

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The whole point about insurance is that that insurance companies collect premiums from a large group of people but, if they’ve done their sums right, they should only end up paying out claims to some of those people.

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I'm glad to say we're both correct. As I said you'll pay ON AVERAGE more in premiums than you'll collect in claims - if this wasn't the case all insurance companies would gradually go down the pan. The other point to note is that insurance companies admin costs swallow a pretty high proportion of what you pay in premiums (that's one of the reasons why they premiums go down rapidly if you accept a higher excess, they want to deal with their customers as little as possible) so ON AVERAGE you'll actually pay a lot more in premiums than you'll collect in claims.

However - and its a big however - this only works on average - you MAY be the unfortunate guy that gets burgled 3 times in 6 months. Although even then the insurance co would put up the premiums (or refuse to insure you so you have to go somewhere more expensive) so in the long run you may still end up paying it back. Therefore you should only not insure if you can afford to stump up the cash for the loss. For instance nobody would not insure the bricks and mortar of their house, but you may for instance decide not to pay the £50 pa insurance on a £200 bicycle.

Interesting that lots of big companies self insure so they've come to the same conclusion. In fact what they do is self insure all the smaller claims but insure the 'catastrophe' risk which could cost the company a huge sum.

Phil

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This analysis is not really correct.

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And neither is yours strictly speaking. Insurance companies take premiums for risk, the objective of the game is to then invest the premiums and/or offset their risk. If you invest the premiums you hope to make money in the period between taking the premium and paying out a claim. If your risk analysis is correct, then the premiums match up with the claims exactly and the profits are made solely on the gains from the investments. Alternatively, or in addition, you try to sell on the risk but pay a lower premium for the same cover. This is called the secondary or re-insurance market. Independent Insurance the company that went down the tubes recently got into trouble because of deals they did in the re-insurance market i.e. deals they did buying other peoples risk at premiums that were too low. A lot of insurance companies have increased their premiums this year (anyone who has insured a car recently knows this) not because there is a developing culture of trying to get compensation for anything bad that happens to us in life, as has been claimed in the press, but because the stock markets have done really badly and a lot of the premiums invested by the insurance companies are now worth less than was initially paid.
John

To be precise perhaps I should have said that the net present value of premiums is higher than the net present value of claim payments when discounted at the average cost of capital of the insuring company.

Phil