Ultimate Flat Earth System

Posted by: throbnorth on 07 September 2002

Prompted by a few sad old git postings I've recently made in the music forum, I was wondering how many forum members have heard 78's played on a decent horn gramophone?

A friend of mine [ex-curator at the Science Museum] has a beautiful acoustic example from around 1920. He says that it's moderately top of the range for its time, and he always uses a fresh needle for each side that he plays [they come in different 'tones', but 'loud tone' is banned, as it harms the records too much, despite immediate thrills].

He does have a quite respectable CD system, but rarely uses it, his chief passion being collecting 78's [and more recently cylinders, which has occasioned a player for the purpose, although he makes no claims for their sound quality]. What is astonishing to me is that 78's are so readily available, in spite of their intrinsic fragility, and good condition records by famous names can be had for relatively little money. £10 is the most he will pay, and that gets you Ella, Caruso et al. Occasionally we have 'scratchy evenings', get drunk and revel in these past glories.

The gob-smacking thing is just how good they sound. Volume can be a bit of a problem , a sock down the horn [hence put a sock in it, I suppose] is all the control you have, but even with 'medium tone' needles, it's still pretty loud. Given a good [preferably pre-electric] recording, say early Eva Turner, you have the weirdest feeling of immediacy & connection with the artist, like a Stargate-style tunel that connects you and the singer through time. PRAT etc, it's all there. Admittedly, orchestral accompaniment doesn't get much of a look in, but voices are completely splendid. CD transfers of 78's, even the Nimbus ones, don't get a look in. They are dry and dead by comparison, and unless you have a dedicated TT which defeats the RIAA curve, don't even think of anything modern.

Highlights of a recent scratchy evening include:

The Planets [conducted by Holst - and you wouldn't believe just how fast he takes it! We checked the speed control several times]

J.R.R.Tokien buying tobacco, as part of an English lesson [on the B side, his wife shows us how to buy gloves].

Two demented bints playing the cello in their garden [forget what they were playing exactly, but it was at dawn, & they were competing with the dawn chorus - magical]

Eva Turner, doing her bit in the flashier parts of Turandot.

The original Broadway cast doing 'Guys & Dolls' [bought on a trip to N.Y. for around £20, on 10 records, with the most fabulous artwork, mint in box.]


any thoughts?

throb
Posted on: 07 September 2002 by Jez Quigley
I had a few players as a young man, and you are right about the direct line to that mysterious past. Treasure indeed.

"All systems are perfectly designed to get the results they get."
Posted on: 07 September 2002 by throbnorth
I must say, I'm very tempted myself- a decent gramophone can be had for less than £400 - less than the price of some interconnects, and an ornament too....

throb
Posted on: 07 September 2002 by Jez Quigley
I think Linn even built a cylinder player once upon a time to retrieve the stuff only on cylinders for archiving.

"All systems are perfectly designed to get the results they get."
Posted on: 08 September 2002 by Mick P
Throbnorth

Using 78's is a nice idea but it is not really practical.

I used to be very enthusiastic about Jukeboxes, I sold my last one off last year because the Naim took over.

Jukeboxs can be roughly divided into 4 categories

Golden Age...roughly up to 1947/48 and played 78's

Siver Age 1948ish to early 1960's open mechamism played 45's

El cheapos from mis sixties onwards still playing 45's

Mis 90's playing CD's

The golden age Jukeboxes used to be worth a fortune because they were relatively rare, well constructed and played 78's.

About 5 years ago, the silver age Jukeboxes caught up on price because the punters realised that they could repeatedly play the 45's but had to be careful with the 78's.

The 78's are shellac based and are VERY brittle. Worse still, they become more brittle with age. Therefore you risk damage every time you play it.

Jukeboxes have an automatic arm which drops onto the 78 with a bit of a thump and this will often chip it, and sometimes destroy it.

With a TT you can gently lower the arm but even lifting it off the platter must be done with care as the friction on the center spigot can cause pressure and breakage.

The 78's do have a certain magic but they are rapidly becoming exhibition pieces due to their
impracticality of use.

Regards

Mick
Posted on: 08 September 2002 by NaimDropper
I've got an original Edison machine minus the horn. It still runs and the one cylinder I have has been bonded to the machine over time.
Been thinking about restoring the wood and finding a horn for it. I've too much junk in my music room as it is, so it sits until I find a place for it.
Then again, there's the problem of undriven speakers in the room... Oh wait. No speakers in the Edison! Ha!
It is amazing to hear one of these, though. The connection with the artist is quite surreal.
Interesting to note that they were "marketed" as being so lifelike that the listeners would swear they were at the live performance.
Things really have not changed in the marketing department, have they!?!!?!!
David